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Patrick
Patrick's picture
Opening movements of pyung ahn ee dan vs sam dan

Hello everyone, hoping y'all can give me education here. Last night at class our instructor began teaching us pyung ahn sam dan. Our style is korean based so hopefully this is the right forum for this. In our style the opening of ee dan and sam dan are basically the same, except ee dan is done with closed fists while sam dan is done with open hands. I asked my instructor why this is, he was upfront about and said he honestly didnt know why that is. He did show us some nice applications for the movements though;) Anyway, I was hoping to get some enlightenment on closed vs open hands in those opening movements. Thanks in advance to everyone who replies!

PASmith
PASmith's picture

I just watched those two patterns and they are basically korean copies of the Pinan/Heian karate kata and, as far as I can see, they don't start the same?

Patrick
Patrick's picture

You're right. Argh I'm terrible at getting what I want to say into written word. I had a bit of tunnel vision going on there. At the beginning of ee dan, after placing both hands down by the right hip, we step with left foot and pivot into a back stance with left hand moving up and left while the right hand comes up into a movement like a high block, arms crossing as they come up, fists closed. The last part is what I'm asking about. The same series of movements in sam dan except ending with open hands rather than closed fists.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi Partick,

Could you link to a YouTube video that shows the forms you are specifically asking about? A timecode for specific motions is always good too. I can then embed the videos and it will make it easier for people to respond.

All the best,

Iain

PASmith
PASmith's picture

I think (maybe) he's talking about the first move of Pinan Shodan and the first move of Pinan Yodan Iain.

Where the arms are in very similar positions but one has hands as fists and the other open hand.

Patrick
Patrick's picture

Haha pinans/pyungs in different orders and done differently in different systems again. Sorry for the confusion. Heres a couple links. First one is not from our system but for the most part the same kata. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWOCgTkXJRI&t=53s Movement in question starts at 0.24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQXl5vIcPt8 Movement starts at .20 in this video and happens twice one after the other in opposite directions. This one is from our system. Bear with me I'll get the hang of the internet one of these days......

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

I don't practice a Korean style, but those are the Korean versions of Pinan Shodan and Pinan Yondan, which are part of the karate style I practice. There are a few things that stand out as differences between the postures you are looking at. First, one has the hands closed, which can indicate grabbing, while the other has open hands, which could potentially be pinning or pressing, but not grabbing. Second, the motions following the initial posture are decidedly different. From an application perspective, although the postures are structurally the same, they are trying to teach you different things. The open hands as opposed to closed could simply be a matter of expecting students to have advanced to using more open handed techniques and muchimidi methods by the time they get to that form--the open hands give you more options. It could also just be telling you to strike with open hands instead of closed, for variety. The fact that the following movements are different, though, gives us a completely different set of material to work from. Pinan Shodan follows that posture by crossing the arms, then throwing a punch or hammerfist, depending on your style. Pinan Yondan follows that posture with a step forward and a low pressing motion (either a "supported low block" or a "low x-block" usually) with the hands closed. To me, that's telling you that the opening posture of Yondan might be an entry, which puts you in position to grab and move into the low pressing motion with your hands closed (indicating that you grabbed the opponent). Just some things to play with.

Patrick
Patrick's picture

Thank you wastelander! What you said makes good sense. ( gonna have to get into Ian's pinan series stuff now ) The style I'm practicing has alot of competition based stuff so I wasnt sure if the difference in the hands was even based in practicality or had possibly been changed for aesthetic reasons. I believe at this point I'll be pondering what you said about ee dan/yondan possibly stressing open handed techniques, pressing etc. I should have made the connection between the open hands at the beginning and the fact that other parts of the kata have open handed techniques that the other two in the pinan series that we've already learned do not. I should give myself more time to absorb the material and ponder it before asking questions but I got excited thinking about the kata ;)