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Nicolai
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Kata Tempo

Hi all.

I am very new karate ka and even newer in Bunkai.

I have 2 questions that maybe should have been 2 Threads but anyways, here goes:

1. I like to use the "rules" or principles from Kaisai no Genri, when I analyze katas. The principles are used in Goju Ryu, and they make sence to me even though I study a different school (Gensei Ryu). I would like to hear you thoughts as to what degree the rules are universal and applicable to all schools. Some of the rules are (in my oppinion) obviously universal, but others make me doubt that. Do you think various Masters based their Katas on the same foundation? Do you know of any other set of rules or principles?

2. Kaisai no Genri nor any other source i have seen explains the reason for techniques in Katas being performed slowly. I guess that consensus exists that in a real fight everything is done as fast as possible. My guess is that some katas train, for example, breathing (Hangetsu?) but others make me think.

First technique of Heian Yondan and Heian Nidan is performed exactly alike with the exception of hands being open in Yondan and closed in Nidan, and performed fast in Nidan and slowly in Yondan (at least that is how I do it).

My guess is that the fists and high tempo in Nidan indicate that you strike the opponent with one of the hands (the one closest to your opponent), and that the open hands and slow tempo in Yondan indicates that it is a grappling technique. Maybe you are holding your opponent and throwing him? I am interested in opinions on these 2 katas in particular and also more general thoughts about tempo in Katas.

Heath White
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About #2: This article by Kousaku Yokota (_Shotokan Mysteries_) suggests that the reason is that a transition from kokutsu dachi - 180* turn - kokutsu dachi is hard to do quickly.

Nicolai
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Heath White wrote:
About #2: This article by Kousaku Yokota (_Shotokan Mysteries_) suggests that the reason is that a transition from kokutsu dachi - 180* turn - kokutsu dachi is hard to do quickly.

Thank you for that, Heath. It makes sense.

I wasnt aware that the Kata had been changed by Sensei Funakoshi. Now I wonder what the consequenses of that change are. There must be a reason behind the original kata.

Iain Abernethy
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Hi Nicolai,

Nicolai wrote:
I like to use the "rules" or principles from Kaisai no Genri, when I analyze katas …

You may find this thread interesting:  https://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/kaisai-no-genri

Kris and Lawrence’s book does an awesome job breaking these down:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Kata-Comprehensive-Deciphering-Applications/dp/159439058

Nicolai wrote:
Do you think various Masters based their Katas on the same foundation?

The kata were created by different people, in different places, at different points in time. They were not designed by committee to a formally agreed criteria, BUT there is nevertheless quite a bit of commonality in construction.

We can the common problem of non-consensual violence and what that demands. We then have the common problem of how best to encapsulate and rehearse that in a solo form. It is therefore perhaps not surprising that very similar solutions evolve independently of one another.  By way of example, tactical positioning is important, and the only way you can record an angle in a solo form is relative to yourself (because you are all there is) so it follows that the angles in kata will tell you the angle relative to the enemy. Not because they formally agreed to do this, but because there is no other way to do it.

Nicolai wrote:
Do you know of any other set of rules or principles?

There are lots of guidance on how kata should be understood, but not much in the way of a formalised set where everything is brought together.  For example, here is Mabuni explaining the aforementioned angles:

 https://iainabernethy.co.uk/comment/5745#comment-5745

The first e-book here gives me personal core set of rules: https://iainabernethy.co.uk/join-newsletter-and-get-two-free-e-books

I’ve also got an 80-minute video to be shared on YouTube soon which covers it all in quite a bit of depth, so keep an eye out for that.

Nicolai wrote:
Kaisai no Genri nor any other source i have seen explains the reason for techniques in Katas being performed slowly. I guess that consensus exists that in a real fight everything is done as fast as possible.

There are a number of reasons why things are slow in kata i.e.

1 – Someone thought it looked or felt cool when done slowly and hence they changed the kata accordingly (looking at the differing versions will help indicate if this is the case).

2 – There are important subtleties in the movement that need emphasising and which may be lost / skimmed over should be movement be done quickly (think of it as the kata “underlining” something).

3 – The bunkai requires the motion to be done slowly in practise (to avoid injury to one’s partner) i.e. certain neck cranks. The practise of doing it slow finds its way into kata either as a deliberate reminder of the dangers in practise or, perhaps more probable, “force of habit”.

4 – To differentiate between a pushing action and a ballistic striking action.

As so on. We therefore need to look at the motion in context. However, as you rightly point out, in application it is always done quickly.

All the best,

Iain

Nicolai
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Thank for the reply, Iain. It really helps. I am looking forward to seeing you in Denmark.