Adapt Kata to Bunkai

Hi,

Personally i don't think it's a good idea to change the kata. As you stated there is more one application to each movement, if you change it depending on the bunkai you will end up more kata. eg one for striking, one for grappling. The whole point of the kata is for you to learn a movement or position and it's up to you to decide what to do with. (just had an image of fifty years from now with students arguing over which one is 'correct') Some bunkai you use the end position, some it's the transition or movement that important.

You also have to remember that some kata were purposefully disguised to hide the bunkai. There was a time when martial arts were banned in Okinawa as well as some instructors being very secretive.

With regards to the kicks, it's why you are kicking. Kicking high is good for competition/ athletisism. If used for self defence is a high kick the best option? What other move is it used with? Lets look at Heian Nidan/Pinan Shodan (back fist - side snap kick) i would use the kick to the back of the knees to break balance while pulling the upper body. In this case i have a reason for why i kick low in the kata.

Personally i try to concentrate on the physical movements when i perform the kata, my brain can't handle to much going on at once. Then i take some movements and play out them in my head, then when i have someone to try them out on i can play with it to see if it works or not.

To finish i would like to quote Gichin Funakoshi "Perform kata exactly; actual combat is another matter"

Hope this helps.

Neil

Hi Christianla,

These are really important points for people new to bunkai to understand. Please forgive the brief response, but I’m very pressed for time today.

The key thing is to get beyond the idea that motions must always be the same in application. There are so many variable in conflict that movements always need to be adapted to fit the exact circumstances. While the movement in the solo kata will remain constant, the movement in application will need to fit the circumstances i.e. difference in the heights of the combatants, the exact angle they are at, what happened before the motion was applied, the exact terrain, etc, etc.

This article should help further explain this (particularly the bits on stages 3 and 4): http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/four-stages-kata-practise

As Funakoshi said, “Always perform the kata exactly, combat is another matter”.

christianla wrote:

I didn’t have the feeling that I had trained this movement for many years in the solo Kata. And I didn’t.

Let’s just have a look at the first movement. The left arm does a sotu-uke (uchi uke) in the Kata and an uppercut in the drill. The end position is the same, the actual movement is not.

Look beyond the label and look at the how the arm actually moves. It comes up and across; not just across.  The arm has to get in front of the enemy’s body and hence a “pure uppercut” (i.e. straight up) would not be appropriate in most cases. While we will adapt the motion in practise to suit the partner, it is closer to what the kata does that a classical upper-cut. To me, the motion is the same (not always clear in photos and 2D footage, but if you think of the angle of impact and the need to get in front of the torso it should be clearer).

christianla wrote:

In order to get a pulling movement (hikite) for the right arm it has to be first moved the left side of the body, for example to the left hip.

Not always, as soon as the path is clear you can hit. If the guy is taller and has longer limbs then it may take a split second longer to get their arm out of the way; but with someone the same size, it tends to be more simultaneous. It’s always what works in the circumstances. To quote Nakasone, in his clarification of Funakoshi, “Never be shackled by the rituals of kata but instead move freely according to the opponent’s strengths and weaknesses”.

christianla wrote:

This is only a minor change, but do I many changes throughout the Kata in this way. An other example is the height of the kicks. In Chinto I exchange the nidan-geri with a kick to the shins instead.

My thinking on this specific example is explained in this article (the text around photos 5 and 6): http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/chinto-gankaku-kata-history-appli...

Basically, we also need to keep in mind that the kata we have already been altered. Kicks being higher is one good example of this. Not an issue (and there can be some physical training benefits), so long as we remember that in partner practise we need to drop the kicks.

christianla wrote:

I can alter the Kata according to the bunkai variation I am currently training.

It should really be the other way around i.e. alter the bunkai according to the situation. The kata can stay the same. Whatever “kata example” you use will be “wrong” in any other circumstance. If you have a taller partner, the bunkai needs changed. If you have a smaller partner, the bunkai needs changed. If you have a partner who is a little closer, the bunkai needs changed. If you have a partner who is a little further away, the bunkai needs changed. And so on.

The kata shows one example to illustrate the principle. Although the example won’t be valid in every single circumstance; the underlying principles will be. As most of the old masters said at some point, we should not get stuck on the example, but internalise what it represents (my 4 stage processes article linked above explains that).

christianla wrote:

When I first tried the drill myself, I didn’t have the feeling that I had trained this movement for many years in the solo Kata. And I didn’t.

What this tells me is that you have been drilling one example, without a partner, for a long time and have yet to get to grips with the underlying combative concepts. Essentially, you are now on the mountainside and have noticed it feels different to looking at the map. That’s exactly how it should be and why what you are now doing is so important. If you keep working the bunkai drills (and KBS) you’ll find this feeling quickly passes and your body will “find the kata”. When you return to solo kata you’ll internally recognise it as one example of the numerous permutations you have practised with partners.

christianla wrote:

are you able to imagine any Bunkai while performing the Kata?

Yes, in fact it’s hard not to because it feels the same. It’s also impossible to do the drills without my body finding the kata. It takes time though and, if it helps, what you are experiencing is common when people start making the step from "solo kata only" to application and kata in a wider context.

All the best,

Iain

Personally I think it is important to pass your traditon on, if you are part of a Ryu. (which I very much am).

However if your not then go for it, but in terms of changing kata to fit bunkai I would only do this with strong guidence from someone very practical and experienced in such things, otherwise we risk making changes with to narrow a view.

The way I view kata, is we do the basic Seito Matsumura form - for a long time and eventually it starts to become part of us, then personal changes just naturally happen - whilst maintaining the katas esscence and principles, as a teacher I very much have the basic form, and my form but they are very, very close.

The kata, IMO are most certainly a little abstract in terms of direct functionality, in places, however that doesn't make the bad - just IMO not the most economical way of learning self defence or indeed fighting - but they are good enough for me as I am a karateka and very pleased about that!

Thank you all for your answers, I really appreceate them! In return I hope to have found some good questions, here they are:

Neil Cook wrote:

Personally i don't think it's a good idea to change the kata. As you stated there is more one application to each movement, if you change it depending on the bunkai you will end up more kata. eg one for striking, one for grappling. The whole point of the kata is for you to learn a movement or position and it's up to you to decide what to do with. (just had an image of fifty years from now with students arguing over which one is 'correct')

Yes, I had this image too, and I thought the matter could be worth it just for the fun of listening to the discussions about what is right or wrong :) In earnest, I am just doing that for myself, when I think about someone teaching that way the matter gets even more complicated.

Neil Cook wrote:

You also have to remember that some kata were purposefully disguised to hide the bunkai. There was a time when martial arts were banned in Okinawa as well as some instructors being very secretive.

But why keep on with this tradition today? Especially if you are not disguising the applications?

Neil Cook wrote:

Personally i try to concentrate on the physical movements when i perform the kata, my brain can't handle to much going on at once.

I think a good example for the reason why and how I want to connect Bunkai mentally with my Kata is the shuto-uke. Originally I was taught it to be a block against a zuki, I am sure you know this bunkai. With my expirience on Sport-Kumite I realized that the classic Karate blocks don't work. My image of the technique influenced the way I perfomed it in the Kata. With this understanding there is not really a motivation to put power in the block, except on the general term that all techniques should be executed with power. This changes now for me if I think of the shuto during the Kata as an attack, or even more if I think of it as a specific bunkai. But of course I won't be able to think of all possible bunkai at once, so I have to select one at a time. The easy thing about the shuto is that I don't have to change its execution.

@Iain:

Thank you for response, it helped clearing some aspects for me. I think what I really need is a strong emphasis in my training on the various stages of Bunkai to fully understand. For me, however, this isn't possible at the moment, because I am the most time in Munich where I am not in a Karate group. Instead I have started this year training Wing-Chung in Munich. It is very interesting to compare it with Karate and I believe it will help me with the Bunkai. That's why I resort to solo Kata while I am in Munich.

Iain Abernethy wrote:

Yes, in fact it’s hard not to because it feels the same. It’s also impossible to do the drills without my body finding the kata.

Just because it's such a nice example I take the Nidan geri in Chinto again. If I kick low I change my original Kata. If I don't I can't image this Bunkai you mentioned and which I really like. What I don't want to do is imagine one thing while doing something different. But if I start changing Kata, at which point do I stop?

 Greetings,

Christian

Christanla wrote:

I think what I really need is a strong emphasis in my training on the various stages of Bunkai to fully understand. For me, however, this isn't possible at the moment, because I am the most time in Munich where I am not in a Karate group. Instead I have started this year training Wing-Chung in Munich. It is very interesting to compare it with Karate and I believe it will help me with the Bunkai. That's why I resort to solo Kata while I am in Munich.

One of the good things about solo kata is that is gives us a supplementary from of solo training; but if it is the only form of training then we have problems. At the moment, you are forced into making that compromise, and having done so I think you need to be realistic about what can be achieved.

When you are doing lots of bunkai training, the solo kata develops a different “feel” and it genuinely feels like a rehearsal of the combative methods done in partner work (regardless of any minor details / differences as explained above). However, trying to use the solo kata to develop that feel is putting the cart before the horse.

The Wing-Chun will really help with the limb control side of things, but it needs to be put into the wider “karate context” to have relevance to the kata. My advice would be to keep refining the solo kata, keep working the Wing-Chun, and when you have a fellow karateka to train with once again, drill lots and lots of bunkai and take part in kata based sparring. The holistic nature of it all and how innumerable variations can flow from a fixed example should then start to become apparent.

Christanla wrote:

Just because it's such a nice example I take the Nidan geri in Chinto again. If I kick low I change my original Kata. If I don't I can't image this Bunkai you mentioned and which I really like. What I don't want to do is imagine one thing while doing something different. But if I start changing Kata, at which point do I stop?

For me, it matters little whether I jump or not, the feeling and internal visualisation remain the same. My body relates the motion to what it knows … and what it primarily knows are the bunkai drills. I think this is the main issue in that you are using the solo kata as the only method of training. You can’t get the right feel of the bunkai without lots of partner work.

To use an analogy, the map of the mountain is not the same as being on the mountain. Looking at the map – no matter how detailed it is or how intently it is studied – will never bring the same experience as actually being on the mountain. A 2D flat piece of paper with markings and symbols is an actuate representation of the landscape. But it is not the same as the landscape itself.

For the guy who has been on the mountain a lot, looking the map is a very different experience as he has the data by which to make the connections and “see” the landscape that the map represents.

Because of your lack of bunkai training, you are like the guy who has the map (solo kata) but has not yet spent enough time in the landscape (bunkai drills). Solo kata alone can never give the feeling of “being on the mountain” … but when you have been on it for a while, then the map can evoke connections, feelings and internal visualisations that is can’t do at present.

On  a more mundane point, there is nothing wrong with changing the kata every now and again to represent a combative variable in practise i.e. I’ll do the kata exactly as if I were fighting a guy who was a foot taller than me  etc. There as a lot on that, and hopefully some other things you’ll find useful on solo kata training, in this podcast:

http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/content/solo-kata-solo-training-podcast

I think you may find that a useful listen as it is very relevant to your circumstance.

All the best,

Iain

If I'm radical in my thinking, I must conclude that before formulated kata there was only random technique. A bigger hole than I'm prepared to jump into (or out of) for now.

Hi Neil Steve here... taking your point about not changing kata.... Hyung....Poomse... " A God by any other name"..

My handle on this is that sometimes in life information is given, requested, or passed down to mankind to interprate that information to fit in with thier personal experiences..."Free Will" I believe its called.

Most intelligent people will attempt to keep the integrity of the information passed on but use it in such a way that makes sense to thier environment or capabilities...you find this in the myriad of religons as an example

Having taught martial arts for years to clients with learning ....I dislike the word [DISABILITIES] I have found they have taught me to think outside the box...or rethink what I am doing with the information I have aquired over the past 40+ years of doing combat arts. To endeavour to copy a pattern of movements shown to one by another will depend on the individuals cognitive ability to mimic physically the exact movement. Do we exclude those that cannot mimic exactly or adapt the integrity of that information to keep it alive.Remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

CONTEXT is the key word repeated by Iain on many occasions, and I on this point I am in agreement.

I think I could be right and I am only guessing ..that past masters will have changed patterns to suit themselves I see this in basic forms from differing styles and nations....similar but different. Koreans have a saying "Ryu Pa" [water flows down divided] The water on the mountain cares not what route it takes to reach the sea...only that the cycle is repeated.

Context is key to understanding fully...." Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old;seek what they sought"

Pyung Ahn Peace and Harmony

Yours in Budo

Stephen

Katas are what are referred to as a Mnemonic device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic).  Meaning, that it is something to help with memory.  In the latest issue of Classical Fighting Arts, Morio Higaonna talks about this very thing.  That students should NOT change the kata to fit an application/bunkai because then you lose all the other information it contains.  You should be able to come up with several bunkai for a set of movements.  Then by practicing the one movement, you are reinforcing those other applications into your memory.  This also assumes that the other applications are pulled out and drilled over and over with each bunkai addressed.

The kata then becomes a time saver.  It used to be in many schools you learned applications and then learned pieces of the kata and you already understood how the movement was/is used.  It's kind of backwards now, we teach the kata and then try and attach meaning to it.

So long answer, drill your bunkai and make the adjustments for each drill, but practice your kata as it is to reinforce all the possibilites.  Otherwise when you change it, it is like saying you don't need the letter "Q" in the english language and then trying to find ways around it's usage instead of having more tools in your toolbox.

christianla wrote:

Are there any disadvantages of this approach? One point could be that there is more than one bunkai to each technique in Kata. But that’s not a problem for me, I can alter the Kata according to the bunkai variantion I am currently training.

The main disadvantage is that you introduce little details in your kata, little things you are not conscious of. Then these details get bigger and bigger until you end up with a different kata.

I had the same temptation years ago, after reading "Five years one kata". First I practised kata "as it was", then switched to a freeform solo practice that looked like kata-oriented shadow boxing. Then I noticed that my "official" kata had become very bad without me even noticing it, until it was too late. I had to restart over and correct a myriad of little mistakes. The main problem is that bunkai is so vast and flexible that there is always something coming out you didn't think of before. If the form is preserved, you simply adapt the application. If the form is foobar because you practised it while thinking about a completely different bunkai, going back can be very painful.

By the way, this is why the vast majority of forms today is totally different from, let's say, a hundred years ago. Every Master had his theory about the application of a particular movement, and every Master introduced slight modifications that in his opinion helped train that movement. The result is a total loss of original information. For instance, Master Itosu changed almost all the movements of the katas he practised, to reflect his personal view of their function, including Kushanku. I wish he didn't do it. Now I would be able to know Kushanku's original movements PLUS Itosu's interpretation of them. The result instead is that I don't know Kushanku's original movements AND I don't know Itosu's interpretation of them. Too bad.

Do a favour to future generations: keep you kata well polished and unchanged.