I'll let this video do the talking.
I see the video very differently and I think that is a good thing since we can get different perspectives on different subjects!
The title is misleading because you said, “why we shouldn’t seek a ground fight”. In that you are referring only to the multiple attackers’ dilemma but let’s cover much more.
First, we don’t know if this guy sot to purposely go to the ground as the title suggests. From the video, we can see that the shirted guy has no idea how to fight or protect himself from the ground, why would we think he would seek the ground?
Following that, he was oblivious to the woman/2ndattacker who just walked up from a distance and kicked him. That’s 2 strikes against him.
This person had no business on the ground and wouldn’t be encouraged to take the fight to the ground, so how did they get there. The video starts with them on the ground, if they didn’t go there on purpose, then it’s possible to assume one was pulled by grabbing the other or one slipped, tripped or was punched which landed the two on the ground. At this point it was a one-on-one fight as the video shows and continued to be that way for at least 30 seconds of the film. If landing on the ground was accidental, is the accepted practice to get up and run or finish the guy quickly. If we just get up we have two healthy opponents. The one getting back up and the friend who kicked.
Back on the ground, we must have a basic knowledge of protecting ourselves. This would include either controlling or finishing an attacker, escaping from a bad position/situation+ getting up?
A basic knowledge/awareness of the ground would have saved this poor chap-in this particular fight video.
[quote=mike23]The title is misleading because you said, “why we shouldn’t seek a ground fight”. In that you are referring only to the multiple attackers’ dilemma but let’s cover much more …
… First, we don’t know if this guy sot to purposely go to the ground as the title suggests. From the video, we can see that the shirted guy has no idea how to fight or protect himself from the ground, why would we think he would seek the ground?[/quote]
I do think this video is a good illustration of why we should not seek a ground fight and it was discussed here a couple of years ago:
The only place were multiple attackers are not a consideration in an environment where they are guaranteed not to happen i.e. sport. So unless we are talking about a sporting match, then a ground fight should never be sought because there is the possibility of being attacked by a second person.
A few years ago, near to where I live, there was an incident were two people were engaged in an altercation which did go to the ground. A third party – who had nothing at all to do with the incident and who did not know either of the people involved – ran across the street and kicked one of the original participants in the head. That blow proved fatal. Even if something starts one on one, outside of sport there is no guarantee it will stay that way. So taking the fight to the ground is always a stupid decision tactically.
In this video, even if a ground fight was not sought by the guy who gets knocked out, it does clearly show why a ground fight should not be sought i.e. third parties can easily get involved and easily take out anyone they chose while they are “busy” due to the greatly reduced mobility when on the ground. I therefore think that whether a ground fight was sought in this video or not, it does show why it should not be.
The correct decision, tactically and legally, when we are talking about physical self-protection is always to act in a way that will best ensure we can escape. It’s not about “winning” the “street fight”. It’s about avoiding physical harm and legal issues. Going to the ground leaves you very vulnerable and makes escape much harder.
If you are forced on to the ground, then you need the skills to escape and get back up. So that element of ground fighting needs to be part of practise, but it is a skill of last resort. In my dojo we compare it to the airline pilot needing the skills to crash land a plane. Sure it’s a skill he will need if all else goes wrong, but it’s hopefully something he never chooses to do.
We need ground work skills so people who watch this kind of thing and get all smug and start spouting things like, “See, I told you ground fighting does not work” are missing the point. Likewise, the connoisseurs of ground work should not turn a wilful blind eye to the fact that methods specifically created for one-one-one fights to the finish don’t work that great when the context changes from consensual fighting to self-protection and we now have the strong possibility of multiple enemies and the aim is now to ensure our safety as opposed to "winning".
All the best,
Thanks Iain, that previous discussion covered a lot of good things.
Ironically I think this clip shows both the necessity of learning how to fight on the ground (if being able to reliably defend yourself is your goal) AND why ground fighting is a bad idea.
The guy on top got KO'd but he'd be in an even worse position if his ground skills weren't good enough and he was the guy on the bottom.
At least his positioning (and it's a position highly favoured in groundfighting systems and MMA) gave him the option of standing up. Even though he lacked the tactical nouse to take make the most of that advantage.
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