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css1971
css1971's picture
Archeology of martial arts

It occurs to me that largely what karate practitioners are doing with bunkai is a form of archeology. Digging up useful techniques from the past. While it's intellectually interesting and somewhat rewarding I'm not sure it's a great way of recording, learning, teaching and ultimately training martial arts and self defence.

In Europe, 600+ years ago, they did not encode martial arts techniques into forms or kata (yes, Europe had martial arts 500 years ago) they wrote them down and illustrated them. Much as we would today but without cameras.

Here is the result:

 

 

playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewjDdUuUAzY&list=PLupGtP125IGmWJr0Xzw2kWrgxvr3mVRFK

I recognise several of the throws and for any who also practice ju-jitsu I suspect you will recognise many (all?) of them. There are also a load of arm and wrist lock techniques. They come from a collection of documents called the Codex Wallerstein and Codex Danzig which contain extensive treatises (german and latin) on martial arts from unarmed combat through to pole weapons, sword fighting, knife fighting and defences. Dated from around 1320 to 1480... Which would possibly make them the earliest actually documented martial arts known?

These martial arts died out completely, but are being revived successfully.

Marc
Marc's picture

This is great, thanks for sharing knowledge and video.

Of course, all martial systems would eventually come up with the same or very similar methods. The human body and physics are the same in any place or time.

But independently of the system, it is always good to see the endless variations permitted by the principles.

The drawings shown in the videos look very detailed and comprehensible (much better in my huble opinion than what I've seen in the Bubushi). Are those original drawings from the olden times or are they modern reproductions?

Are those books/scripts/combat manuals available on the internet or published as books somewhere?

Cheers, Marc  

css1971
css1971's picture

Fascinating, isn't it.

And I thought the knights of the time just bashed each other with maces. Seems we're giving them too little credit.

From what I can make out, there's a complete unarmed martial art there; throws, locks (arm and wrist), kicks punches, elbows, knees, chokes, gouges, knife attacks and defences. Then you have the staff, spear, sword, and virtually every other western weapon you care to name. Including sickles.

They're original illustrations, 600+ years old in many cases. Some of the original illustrations are fairly poor, some (slightly later, better ones) are by the painter Dürer (who knew he was a martial artist). All of the original text is in old german or latin, which most (educated) europeans would have understood at the time. There are some modern english translations available.

Some of the original manuscripts are online and reprinted. One of the best condition copies is in Glasgow, it's clear they used this stuff all over europe; italy, germany, UK. It was not only used in germany, though the guy who compiled it all (Lichtenauer) was Germanic (At the time it was the Holy Roman Empire rather than germany).

The HEMA guys have a wiki with photos of the original codexes:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Glasgow_Fechtbuch_%28MS_E.1939.65.341%29

Reprinted in book form:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Codex-Wallerstein-Fifteenth-Longsword-Wrestling/...

Access to this stuff is all very recent, much of it was unavailable to most people, sitting in museum archives pre-2000 and lots of techniques still haven't been revived from the texts, particularly where there is only a description of the techniques, without illustration.

Marc
Marc's picture

This is truly amazing! smiley It's all in there.

Apparently the drawings were illustrations created to ease the understanding of an even older document in which fighting methods and tactics where written in poems.

When I read the article at http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Johannes_Liechtenauer#Treatise  I could not help but replace "poem", "words", "record" and similar expressions with expressions like "kata", "techniques", "teachings" and the like. This way it would resemble something like "the master encoded and obfuscated the kata so that only those who had learned the techniques from the master would be able to decipher it and thus use it as a mnemonic tool for his teachings."

Poems and kata - different media, same story?

---

I'm sure even back then there were also people like the Jim Carey Karate Instructor: "Why don't we start with a longsword attack? ... No, no, like a lot of beginning students you attacked me wrong. ... You've got to keep your arm completely straight." - "You seem to be losing a lot of blood. Can I get you anything?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE

Sorry, a bit off-topic, but it never ceases to be funny.  

Jose Garcia
Jose Garcia's picture

Great!  

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Very interesting videos! Thanks for sharing!

css1971
css1971's picture

If you look this stuff up on youtube you'll find most of it is sword related at the moment. They were the most enthusiastic about recreating the historic sword fencing arts... Lets face it, it gives you an excuse to go out and play with swords. Hands up anyone who owns a katana.

Even if it's found that all the unarmed techniques are already known in karate, ju-jitsu and other asian arts, the european revival is also important to the asian arts as well. They were developed independently, thousands of miles from Okinawa, Japan and China and hundreds of years in time apart, so it gives substantial martial credence to any techniques found common to both sets of cultures. People wouldn't have developed and recorded them if they didn't work, and you can be doubly sure they wouldn't have been developed and recorded twice independently.

BTW, For anyone interested in knife fighting and defences, bearing in mind that during the medieval times everyone would have carried daggers and knives and would have fought with them while armoured and unarmoured I found the illustrations of the dagger techniques on the whole very surprising. Overwelmingly the point is held downwards not upwards.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

For quite some time, I've used medieval martial arts treatises as references and supporting evidence for karate techniques. I recently took an introductory lesson in the Fiore system with a HEMA group here in Phoenix, and it was cool to see all the similarities in action!

css1971
css1971's picture

I've only come across it very recently, particularly the unarmed combat stuff. I was aware of the sword fighting and that there were people running around re-enacting historical sword fencing but really it just looked like an excuse to go and play with swords and dress up in armour.

I was looking at Fiore the other day. He seems to have some explicit vital point stuff as well as strikes, gouges, locks (calls them breaks, which is telling. You don't have to rely on pain, you can just go ahead and break their arm.) etc that match up with what I've seen in Karate. A couple of things that look a bit like the opening of kusanku. Also a fair bit of interesting dagger/knife stuff that's well worth looking at. Totally different attitude to knives struck me, very simple matter of fact take it away from them and break their arm... Maybe there's something I'm missing there in how I approach knives and some of the more brutal techniques. They're not just for compliance.

But yes, very interesting.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

If you like the bunkai / European martial arts similarities, then the next newsletter has a treat in store! Join the newsletter and keep an eye on your in-box! http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/join-newsletter-and-get-two-free-e-books

Wastelander
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I certainly look forward to it! I have whole collections of images taken from a variety of medieval treatises, sorted by what kata techniques they fit. It's good stuff!

garth gilmour
garth gilmour's picture

Check this one out - lots of similarities to Karate and Krav Mag within...

Marc
Marc's picture

Wastelander wrote:

I have whole collections of images taken from a variety of medieval treatises, sorted by what kata techniques they fit. It's good stuff!

After this teaser, could you at all imagine yourself making these collections available?

css1971
css1971's picture

Check this one out - lots of similarities to Karate and Krav Mag within...

I think that's based on pugilism which is quite a bit later and a civilian art, but also very interesting nonetheless.

There is one thing I have noticed with modern (including modern sport karate) and virtually all western martial arts vs particularly older karate practices is the lack of "pulling hands" (hikite).

With (an idealised) shuto, or uchi uke imagine an opponents right handed punch or grab coming in, you block to the left with your own right hand while hitting with your left (given body positioning this isn't going to be much more than a distraction, but it explains the double hip twist in some styles), then grab the opponents right arm with your left as you pull back hikite and hit them with your right, typically to the throat. The use of pulling hands clears the way for your own main response to hit the opponent from the the side of the trapped arm and the opposite side to their free hand. The fact that you're immobilising their arm makes it even difficult to flinch the head away from the response.

Contrast that with some of the pugilism shown, or boxing or virtually any modern martial art. Yup block with the right, clear with the left or just block with the left. No pulling/trapping hands, then you hit back with the right on the same side as the opponent's free hand and the opponent is free to duck and weave. Even if you grab the opponent's shirt or body as a guide with your left and hit with your right, he still has a free arm he can put in the way to block your strike.

It seems to give the opponent a much better chance of parrying, blocking or avoiding your response than the karate uke do and I'm wondering if that is one of the main influences of sport (lengthening the fight, making it more exciting for viewers) or if the Okinawans have just been a lot cleverer about it. What I'd like to see with the early pugilism as opposed to later, is if they made any use of pulling/trapping hands.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

Marc wrote:

Wastelander wrote:

I have whole collections of images taken from a variety of medieval treatises, sorted by what kata techniques they fit. It's good stuff!

After this teaser, could you at all imagine yourself making these collections available?

Well, technically it IS all available, since I took screenshots from treatises that are all available online for free. I have them all in my Google Drive, with labels so I can find them in searches, but I don't have them separated into their own folder. Here is a screenshot of just a few of them: http://s22.postimg.org/j4jpeph9d/Karate_Examples_in_European_Martial_Art...

css1971
css1971's picture

Well, technically it IS all available, since I took screenshots from treatises that are all available online for free. I have them all in my Google Drive, with labels so I can find them in searches, but I don't have them separated into their own folder. Here is a screenshot of just a few of them: http://s22.postimg.org/j4jpeph9d/Karate_Examples_in_European_Martial_Art...

This is a great idea that deserves to be expanded/published at the very least on a web site.

Marc
Marc's picture

css1971 wrote:

Well, technically it IS all available, since I took screenshots from treatises that are all available online for free. I have them all in my Google Drive, with labels so I can find them in searches, but I don't have them separated into their own folder. Here is a screenshot of just a few of them: http://s22.postimg.org/j4jpeph9d/Karate_Examples_in_European_Martial_Art...

This is a great idea that deserves to be expanded/published at the very least on a web site.

Yeah, second that.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

I've considered writing up something on my blog about it, but there are so many examples that it would be a rather long process. I'll see what I can do, though!

css1971
css1971's picture

Ah so, no magical automation to "make it so".

Definitely worth a blog post. Personally think it's a fascinating area from both the european and asian side.