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Kevin73
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Article by Jesse: secret meaning of heian/pinan
Iain Abernethy
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I put a post up on Facebook about the article earlier this week.

Iain Abernethy on Facebook wrote:
Great minds think alike! In August 2007 I put out a podcast on the meaning of the name Pinan / Heian on my now deduct blog. It's still online though: http://blog.iainabernethy.com/?p=77

A few months later I also made the podcast into an article which was published in Traditional Karate magazine and you can also read here: http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/there-nothing-peaceful-about-pinans

To my knowledge, I was alone in suggesting we had the meaning of the name wrong. Today, Karate by Jesse (great website!) put out a new article with touches on this topic too:

"I decided to start a Karate Nerd™ investigation!

To find out, I sent an e-mail to a Chinese friend of mine, where I simply wrote the kanji (Japanese ideograms) for Heian/Pinan, and said nothing about its meaning in modern Karate (the commonly accepted “Peace and Tranquility” or “Tranquil Mind”).

The next day, his e-mail came back…

Check it out:

"Hi Jesse. Oh, that’s nothing special. We pronounce it “Pingan”, and it’s a pretty common word in China. It’s hard to translate exactly, but it means something like “stay safe” or “be protected from danger”. For example, when I flew back to China last summer, my family said it to me at the airport. It’s like a “stay safe” wish.“"

http://www.karatebyjesse.com/heian-pinan-kata-secret-meaning/

So that's two of us independently reaching the exact same conclusion. A conclusion, which anyone who picks up a Chinese-English dictionary will come too :-)

You can even put the characters for Pinan / Heian into an online translator and see for yourself.

Have a read of both Jesses's article and mine because I think there is a very convincing case to be made for dropping "Peaceful Mind"

Since then, I also found the link to where I first put this forward on the old version of this forum:

http://www.iainabernethy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000096

I am 100% convinced that the kata name should be thought of as “safe from harm” and that this reflects what Funakoshi said of the forms in Karate-Do Kyohan:

“Having mastered these five forms, one can be confident that he is able to defend himself competently in most situations. The meaning of the name is to be taken in this context”

He is telling us to read it the Chinese way, as opposed to the Japanese way.

The common reading of “peaceful mind” definitely needs abandoning.

All the best,

Iain

Kevin73
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I remembered your article that was posted here, I thought it was interesting that another person came to the same conclusion as you did.

Sorry, about a report, I didn't realize you had posted it already.

DaveB
DaveB's picture

Funakoshi said as much in one of his books.

Peaceful mind is not wrong, it's the meaning of Hiean. When changing the name into Japanese Funakoshi wanted to keep the "stay safe" implication. Thus he said that one who masters these kata can walk with a peaceful mind in the knowledge that they can defend themselves.

In other words the name was always intended to convey the combative purpose of these kata. He just found a way that let him link directly back from the Japanese to the original Okinawan.

Ian H
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Iain Abernethy wrote:

I put a post up on Facebook about the article earlier this week.

So refreshing to see you two complimenting each other about coming to the same conclusion (out of a mutual love of karate knowledge and mutual respect between "karate nerds") rather than getting into the sort of macho posturing over "who thought of it first" and trying to discredit "the other guy" that we see so often in karate and on the internet.  

Iain Abernethy
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Kevin73 wrote:
Sorry, about a report, I didn't realize you had posted it already.

No apology needed! I never posted it here, but I’m pleased someone did! It’s an important topic and this article will really help move things forward.

Ian H wrote:
So refreshing to see you two complimenting each other about coming to the same conclusion (out of a mutual love of karate knowledge and mutual respect between "karate nerds") rather than getting into the sort of macho posturing over "who thought of it first" and trying to discredit "the other guy" that we see so often in karate and on the internet.

The Chinese language has been around for a very long time, so neither of us can claimed to have thought of it first :-) It’s a conclusion we’ve both come to independently, and I think that independent confirmation helps both of us, and, hopefully, it will help convince people of the validity of what we are saying. Jesse has a big following and very engaging writing style. He does a lot of good for karate and it’s nice to have his support on this issue.

DaveB wrote:
Peaceful mind is not wrong, it's the meaning of Heian.

Heian is made up of two characters. Pinan is written with the exact same characters:

平安

The first character is pronounced “ping” in Chinese (Mandarin), “pin” by the Okinawans, and “hei” in Japanese. So Funakoshi did not change the name in this case, he simply pronounced the existing name in a Japanese way.

The first character (Pin / Hei / Ping) originates from a pictogram denoting plants floating on the top of water and means “flat, level, even; peaceful, clam”. The second character, which is pronounced “an” in all the languages mentioned, originates from a pictogram denoting a woman underneath a roof and means “peaceful, tranquil, quiet, content”.

As we can see, it does not translate to “peaceful mind” … there is no character for mind. It translates as “peace and tranquillity”. The “mind” comes from people misunderstanding what Funakoshi is saying here:

“Having mastered these five forms, one can be confident that he is able to defend himself competently in most situations. The meaning of the name is to be taken in this context.”

Remember that in the original text, which was in Japanese, Heian / Pinan was written with the characters “平安”. Funakoshi is obviously aware of the different readings between Chinese and Japanese so when he says “The meaning of the name is to be taken in that context” he essentially saying, “Understand the name in relation to that fact the kata enable you to be able to defend yourself in most situations i.e. it will keep you safe. So read it the Chinese way, and not the Japanese way.”

The problem is that others may not be aware of the differing readings between the two languages. So when Funakoshi says, “The meaning of the name should be taken in this context” it can confuse those stuck on a “Peace and Tranquillity” reading. How do you square “peace and tranquillity” with being able to defend yourself?

DaveB wrote:
When changing the name into Japanese Funakoshi wanted to keep the "stay safe" implication. Thus he said that one who masters these kata can walk with a peaceful mind in the knowledge that they can defend themselves.

That’s the widespread view. The standard answer to my question has been “I have a “peaceful mind” because I know I’m safe”. But, as we know, there is no character for mind, and an understanding that the Chinese reading is “safe from harm” makes everything become clear.

I think we can be clear that “peaceful mind” is a mistaken translation. “Peace and Tranquillity” is a sound translation (Japanese). So is “Safe from Harm” (Chinese). However, it seems clear that it was the Chinese reading that Funakoshi was referring to.

At the time Itosu created the Pinan series, “karate” was written using the characters for “Chinese / 唐” (pronounced “kara” or “to”) and “hand / 手” (pronounced “te” or “de”) giving us the readings of “karate” or “tode”(both written as 唐手).

It was when the art spread to Japan that the character for “empty / 空” (which can also be pronounced as “kara”) was widely substituted in order to make the art easier to promote in mainland Japan.

The Okinawans - unlike their countreparts in mainland Japan - regarded all things Chinese, to quote Funakoshi, to be “excellent and fashionable”. Itosu, as an Okinawan, will have taken pride in the Chinese origins of the art he practised. Itosu was also employed as a scribe by the Okinawan king and was an expert in the Chinese classics. If you consider that when Itosu created the Pinan series, it was before the art had reached mainland Japan; the art was called “Chinese-Hand”; all things Chinese were held in high regard by the Okinawans; that no other kata had a Japanese name; and that Itosu was an expert in Chinese literature; it seems highly improbable that he will have been thinking along Japanese lines when naming the kata series he created and infinitely more likely that he was thinking along Chinese lines.

I think we can therefore be very confident that “safe from harm” was what Itosu was thinking when he named his kata, and that is reflected in the writings of his student, Gichin Funakoshi.

I feel the reading of “Peaceful mind” should be dropped for the above reasons. We see it in English translations of Funakoshi’s work, but we need to remember that Funakoshi himself will have written “平安” and not “peaceful mind”. And that what Funakoshi wrote cannot be translated as “peaceful mind”; only “peace and tranquillity” or “safe from harm”… and Funakoshi himself does tell us which one we should go with.

I go into more details on my thinking around this in this article linked to below:

http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/there-nothing-peaceful-about-pinans

All the best,

Iain

DaveB
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I was intending to agree with you, but I was suggesting that it's not exactly an earth shattering discovery.

What I was trying to say was that the "Peace and Tranquility" reading is just another way of giving the same message: "Stay Safe". I know this because as you quoted, Funakoshi said as much.

As you say, the rename was for a new audience. You wouldn't change the pronunciation of the name to Japanese if you expected people to read the Chinese translation into the word.

GF saw the Japanese meaning of Pinan and realised that the same message could be passed on using it.

Problems only arise when people try to figure out the meaning of a phrase like Peace and Tranquility without first checking with the source. I say this as someone who started Karate in the 90's when books like Karatedo Kyohan and Nyumon were easily available. I realise that many who started in the decades before then may not have had such easy access to historical karate info.

Dale Parker
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Applauding your use of kanji in the post.

ky0han
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Hi everyone,

Itosu was very keen to introduce Karate into the japanese school system. He worked very hard for that and finally wrote his famous letter to the japanese ministry of education. So to sell Karate to be introduced as subject for PE he had to give those five Kata a japanese flavour. So he might have named it after the old capital of Japan (Heian-Kyo today known as Kyoto). Heian translates simply as peace.

I like that theory of the chinese reading meaning "safe from harm". But can we be absolutely sure Itosu meant that? Who knows :o).

Just food for thought.

Regards Holger

Mjlefou
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When I was living in Chinatown in New York a couple of years ago, I was teaching myself kanji and basic Mandarin as I was in the Fuzhou area of Chinatown and almost everyone can speak Mandarin (free language lessons!), I noticed a sign above the thresholds of several homes and businesses that said 出入平安.  

When I first saw this, I became excited as I recognized the last two characters as Pinan/Heian kata.  Easily translatable, the sign reads "coming and going, stay safe" or "be at peace."  I asked my Fujianese friend over dinner if it was common and he said 平安 was a kind of blessing or well-wishing, like "Take care" in English or 気をつけて in Japanese, which can also be used to command diligence of paying attention, and to be aware of one's own safety.  

Iain Abernethy
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DaveB wrote:
As you say, the rename was for a new audience. You wouldn't change the pronunciation of the name to Japanese if you expected people to read the Chinese translation into the word.

This is where I disagree Dave. The Okinawan name of the kata was “平安” and it was kept the same when it went to Japan i.e. they were still called “平安”. The pronunciation cannot be captured by the kanji and hence nothing was changed. Funakoshi didn’t change anything; indeed as we read in Kyohan he seemed keen that the meaning inferred from the Chinese use of the same characters was not lost. Again, nothing is changing.

The confusion only arises when we translate to English because although 平安 = 平安, (exact same characters) “peace and tranquillity” does not equal “safe from harm” (very different sequence of letters). My point would be that Funakoshi did not change the name of the kata, he kept it the same. He also didn’t “change the pronunciation” as that was a natural consequence of Japanese people speaking as they do.

DaveB wrote:
I was intending to agree with you … GF saw the Japanese meaning of Pinan and realised that the same message could be passed on using it.

That suggests Funakoshi instigated a change. He kept the characters the same and he tells us in Kyohan to read it in line with a Chinese understanding. He therefore didn’t change anything. “Peace and tranquillity” only appears when translated into English; it’s not Funakoshi’s doing.

That’s where we disagree I think as you seem to be suggesting Funakoshi made a change”; where as I’m saying he made no change in this instance.

I’m sure the reception by a Japanese audience may have been may have been part of Itosu’s thinking though when it came to his naming of the kata though. More below:

ky0han wrote:
Itosu was very keen to introduce Karate into the japanese school system. He worked very hard for that and finally wrote his famous letter to the japanese ministry of education. So to sell Karate to be introduced as subject for PE he had to give those five Kata a Japanese flavour. So he might have named it after the old capital of Japan (Heian-Kyo today known as Kyoto). Heian translates simply as peace.

If that was his thinking, then we have to question how that squares with the Kyohan quote i.e. the name of the kata reflects the ability of the kata to protect oneself. It does not really work if it was named after Kyoto. However, I think the desire of Itosu to get karate into the schools (the Japanese ran schools) could have been part of this thinking.

As Holger rightly points out, we don’t know for certain why Itosu picked the name he did, but I feel the following holds hold water:

In Karate no Kenkyu, published by Genwa Nakasone Genwa in 1934, Choki Motobu tells the tale of when he first witnessed the modern versions of the Pinan kata. Motobu tells us that as part of the discussion between Itosu and himself, Itosu said, “The students all told me that the name 平安 (Pinan) is better, so I went along with the opinions of the young people.”

Let’s also remember that Itosu was a scribe and a well-educated guy. So maybe he picked the name precisely because it has this “double reading”?

The students in the schools – ran by the Japanese authorities – are learning forms with a name they are most likely to interpret as “peace and tranquillity”. I’m sure getting the authorities to accept “peace and tranquillity” in schools was easier than teaching anything overtly combative (which maybe what he meant by the “young people” thinking it was a better name?). However, the same name could be understood by his adult students in its Chinese-hand / self-defence context.

The name 平安 perfectly captures the two types of karate Itosu was teaching. The Pinan kata can be perfectly peaceful forms of exercise for school children, and they can be studied combatively by the adults to fend off violence.

Same kata. Same name. Two different types of karate in one entity.

With Itosu’s knowledge of language, I can see this being entirely possible. It’s very clever too!

We don’t know for sure, but I think it was the Chinese reading Funakoshi was directing us toward, and that Itosu was well aware of the “double reading” and chose the name precisely because it had that double reading in order to fit the two types of karate the Pinans were being used for.

We can go with “peace and tranquillity” (Japanese) or “safe from harm” (Chinese, and seemingly Funakoshi’s preference) or we can take the above view and say that Itosu was very clever and deliberately picked a name with two meanings. Either way, “Peaceful mind” is wrong and should be dropped :-)

All the best,

Iain

Marc
Marc's picture

Mjlefou wrote:

When I was living in Chinatown in New York a couple of years ago, I was teaching myself kanji and basic Mandarin as I was in the Fuzhou area of Chinatown and almost everyone can speak Mandarin (free language lessons!), I noticed a sign above the thresholds of several homes and businesses that said 出入平安.

When I first saw this, I became excited as I recognized the last two characters as Pinan/Heian kata.  Easily translatable, the sign reads "coming and going, stay safe" or "be at peace."  I asked my Fujianese friend over dinner if it was common and he said 平安 was a kind of blessing or well-wishing, like "Take care" in English or 気をつけて in Japanese, which can also be used to command diligence of paying attention, and to be aware of one's own safety.

Thanks for that hint.

I did a quick web search for 出入平安 and I found this as an example: http://detail.1688.com/offer/1235258085.html

It's from a Chinese shopping website. As I don't speak Chinese I ran the heading through the bing translator from chinese to english. It says that "民族风 中国结刺绣出入平安香包小挂件 汽车挂饰 小礼物" means "Ethnic Chinese knot embroidery safe sachet small pendant vehicle ornaments gifts".

The object on display looks like a kind of delightful (read: cheesy) pendant or charm with the characters "出入平安" on one side and just "平安" (our "Píng'ān" in question) on the other.

I'm actually thinking of ordering one. ;-)

Take care and stay safe everybody, where ever you go.

Marc

Marc
Marc's picture

I also found this short video titled "Auspicious Chinese Phrase 出入平安", and it explains "the meaning of this phrase 出入平安, where do people use this phrase, how to write this phrase."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiv83OzBjBs

Leave and come in peace and safety.

So Pinan/Heian would just mean "peace and safety".  

DaveB
DaveB's picture

Ian Abernethy wrote:

DaveB wrote:
As you say, the rename was for a new audience. You wouldn't change the pronunciation of the name to Japanese if you expected people to read the Chinese use translation into the word.

This is where I disagree Dave. The Okinawan name of the kata was “平安” and it was kept the same when it went to Japan i.e. they were still called “平安”. The pronunciation cannot be captured by the kanji and hence nothing was changed. Funakoshi didn’t change anything; indeed as we read in Kyohan he seemed keen that the meaning inferred from the Chinese use of the same characters was not lost. Again, nothing is changing.

The confusion only arises when we translate to English because although 平安 = 平安, (exact same characters) “peace and tranquillity” does not equal “safe from harm” (very different sequence of letters). My point would be that Funakoshi did not change the name of the kata, he kept it the same. He also didn’t “change the pronunciation” as that was a natural consequence of Japanese people speaking as they do.

DaveB wrote:
I was intending to agree with you … GF saw the Japanese meaning of Pinan and realised that the same message could be passed on using it.

That suggests Funakoshi instigated a change. He kept the characters the same and he tells us in Kyohan to read it in line with a Chinese understanding. He therefore didn’t change anything. “Peace and tranquillity” only appears when translated into English; it’s not Funakoshi’s doing.

That’s where we disagree I think as you seem to be suggesting Funakoshi made a change”; where as I’m saying he made no change in this instance.

In which case I am confused. You are saying Funakoshi made no changes, that Hiean is just how the Japanese speak, but if that's the case then how come some Japanese schools use the name Pinan still while Shotokan and it's offshoots are the only people to use the name Hiean?

A shared alphabet is not the same as a shared language. A different pronunciation with a different meaning understood from the word whether written or spoken (i.e. "Peace" in Japan, as opposed to "Stay safe" in China), must constitute a change.

Clearly we agree that GF was intending to comunicate the same basic idea, but the fact that Wado and Shito groups still use the name Pinan indicates that calling the kata Hiean was a concious choice.

Kevin73
Kevin73's picture

Funakoshi renamed almost all of the Shorin katas to Japanese sounding names. As has been pointed out before, the way of writing it wasn't changed only how it was pronounced in the case of Pinan/Heian.  Shotokan also switched the Shodan and Nidan versions of these katas as well, that most other styles dont do either. Something to consider, the ones who use Pinan also use the original order.

We see the same thing in Okinawa earlier when "modernizing" karate and making it more acceptable.

Kara=China/Tang

Kara=Empty

One slight change and karate went from being "China Hand" to "Empty Hand".  In this case, the pronunciation is the same for either meaning in Japanese, but the characters to write it changed. 

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

DaveB wrote:
In which case I am confused. You are saying Funakoshi made no changes, that Hiean is just how the Japanese speak, but if that's the case then how come some Japanese schools use the name Pinan still while Shotokan and it's offshoots are the only people to use the name Heian?

When writing the kanji, Pinan and Heian will be written in exactly the same way (平安). While kanji gives meaning it does not give sound (the opposite of the English alphabet that gives sound but not meaning). To give an example the character 空 is produced “kara” in relation to 空手 (kara-te), but it can also be produced as “sora”, “ku”, “uro”, etc. To clarify pronunciation, Japanese has other characters which have sound but not meaning. For foreign words – such as the names of the kata – we would use katakana.

The Japanese pronunciation of 平安 would be written as “ヘイアン” (he-i-a-n)

The Okinawan pronunciation  of 平安 would be written as “ピンアン” (pi-n-a-n)

The katakana could be used in Japanese texts to clarify the preferred pronunciation of 平安.

In the original Karate-do Kyohan (image to the right) we can see “ヘイアン” (he-i-a-n) written next to the characters, which would give the Japanese pronunciation of “Heian”. In brackets below we can see “ピンアン” giving the Okinawan pronunciation of “Pinan” (pi-n-a-n).

Funakoshi / Shotokan went with a Japanese pronunciation of the characters, but this does not change the kanji used (it is still 平安) and Funakoshi guides us how to read the characters in Karate-Do Kyohan (i.e. in a way to reflect the complete self-protection system they represent; which would be the Chinese “safe from harm” reading). Other styles stuck with the Okinawan pronunciation. Mabuni, for example, wrote the kata name as 平安 in his books. But, as far as I can tell, it’s not accompanied by a katakana pronunciation guide anywhere.  A Japanese reader could read it as “Heian”, but the Okinawan pronunciation of “Pinan” seems to have won out in Shito-Ryu.

Reagrdless, the name is universally written as 平安 and it is from those characters that we infer meaning.

It’s a bit like how I would pronounce “house” as “owse” (Cumbrian dialect) and my friends north of the border would say “hoose” (Scottish). The differing pronunciations would not prevent us from all writing it as “house” and the changing pronunciation does not change meaning. It’s an imperfect analogy because, to be complete, it would require the writing of “house” to have an alternate meaning in another language to parallel the differing meanings of 平安 in Japanese and Chinese. Nevertheless, I hope it helps illustrate the general idea that pronunciation does not inevitably change meaning.

For an analogy of the "common word" side of things, let’s say I had written the following sentence in a language other than German or English:

In Germany they would say it is illegal to give your husband a “gift”.

When I translate that into English I would be making a mistake if I used the English meaning of “gift” i.e. “a present”.  I need to understand that “gift” is German for “poison”.

“In Germany we would say it is illegal to give your husband a present” would be a faulty translation.

The correct translation would be “In Germany we would say it is illegal to give your husband poison”. However, I lose the word "gift" from the sentance, which is not good if I'm talking about the specific word "gift". If I were to keep letters g, i, f, t (just as Funakoshi did with 平安) then you need an explanatory note:

In Germany we would say it is illegal to give your husband a “gift”. The meaning of "gift" should be understood in regards to poison

I need that clarification to avoid ambiguity and to be sure “gift” is understood in its German context; as opposed to its English one.

So when Funakoshi wrote, “Having mastered these five forms, one can be confident that he is able to defend himself competently in most situations. The meaning of the name is to be taken in this context.” The second sentence is a clarification to ensure you read “平安” with regards to the kata's ability to keep you safe i.e. in line with the Chinese reading.

If we were to say this Japanese pronunciation was because he wanted a Japanese reading to be inferred, we have the problem of what he said in Karate-Do Kyohan where a Japanese reading was advised against.

Trying to stick with a Japanese reading is what led to the addition of “mind” to square that circle. You don’t need to engage in linguistic gymnastics by adding “mind” to make “peaceful mind” – nor do you have to ignore what Funakoshi said about the name – if you go with the view he was advising a Chinese reading of the characters. To me, it’s a very simple and elegant solution.

It also worth remembering that in Chinese (Mandarin) 平安 would be pronounced as neither "Heian" or "Pinan"; but instead as “Pingan”. Again, same characters but differing pronunciations. The Okinawans pronounced the characters in a local way, and Funakoshi did the same when he pushed for the acceptance of karate in Japan. However, some of his contemporaries – most of whom were Okinawan themselves – stuck with the Okinawan pronunciation.

Funakoshi did not change the name in this case. He kept the same kanji and Kyohan seems to make clear that he wanted the meaning associated with a Chinese reading of the characters. I therefore don’t feel there is a case to say he changed the name to “peace and tranquillity”. Indeed, he seems to warn specifically against this with his clarfication of the context in which the name should be understood. In his writings we see the same characters and the same meaning endorsed. We just see a Japanese pronunciation.

It’s also important to note that when Funakoshi explained his renaming of certain kata in “Karate-Do: My Way of Life” he does not list Pinan / Heian as one he has renamed. Whereas  Empi, Gankaku, Hangetsu, Meikyo, Hakko (Funakoshi’s name for Sochin which never caught on), etc are all listed. Again, this would support the idea that in the case of the 平安 kata Funakoshi changed nothing (other than adopting the local accent).

I hope that helps clarify where I’m coming form and why I feel there was no change made to the name. It’s my view that Funakoshi still wanted the kata name to be understood inline with “safe from harm” as opposed to “peace and tranquillity” based on Funakoshi’s writings in Karate-Do Kyohan.

All the best,

Iain

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Kevin73 wrote:
One slight change and karate went from being "China Hand" to "Empty Hand".  In this case, the pronunciation is the same for either meaning in Japanese, but the characters to write it changed.

Good point. Japanese is a very different languages to English. In Japanese, I could understand the meaning of a written “word”, but have no idea how to say it aloud from the characters alone. In English it is the opposite: I can understand how to pronounce a word, but not understand its meaning.

For example if I said, “I am a person who has pogonotrophy”. You could all read that out loud, but you probably don’t understand what the last word means (“the ability to grow facial hair”).

When we see “平安” the meaning can be inferred, but not pronunciation so guidance is needed (i.e. like how Funakoshi puts a pronunciation guide next to the kata names in the image in by post above). And because Japanese makes use of Chinese characters – but uses them differently from how the Chinese do – there can be confusion when Chinese terms are written in Japanese and vice-versa. So clarification can be needed at times. Which is what I think Funakoshi is giving us in Kyohan.

Back to the main thread of this topic, there is no way “平安” can be read as “peaceful mind” so – whichever way we ultimately jump on the meaning the name – we should be able to agree that “peaceful mind” is one we can all drop.

All the best,

Iain

DaveB
DaveB's picture

Ian, I understand better your view now, thanks.

I disagree, but only on the most accademic of points. Ultimately we hold the same view, that Funakoshi wanted Karateka to understand from the name of the kata set that they are intended to teach a good level of self defence skills.

I just feel that he believed the Japanese reading of those kanji was sufficient to get the message across. He was after all a poet.

Had he intended the foreign (to the Japanese) reading of the kanji be used he would have left the katakana as Pinan, a foreign word for a foreign interpretation. I think the sentence he wrote in Kyohan would have said, "use the chinese reading". Instead what he says is "understand the name in this way" which to me says, "this is why I'm calling a series of combat techniques the oxymoronic name Peace and Tranquility".

I think GF saw a poetic way to tell his students the same tale while keeping the old connections in place.

Honestly though, one theory is as good as another until someone builds a time machine. Thanks again for taking the time to clarify things.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

DaveB wrote:
Ian, I understand better your view now, thanks.

And I yours :-) I love threads like this where the dialogue brings out lots of viewpoints and information. It makes for a far better read and the detailed info helps people make up their own minds.

DaveB wrote:
I disagree, but only on the most academic of points. Ultimately we hold the same view, that Funakoshi wanted Karateka to understand from the name of the kata set that they are intended to teach a good level of self defence skills.

I just feel that he believed the Japanese reading of those kanji was sufficient to get the message across. He was after all a poet.

Had he intended the foreign (to the Japanese) reading of the kanji be used he would have left the katakana as Pinan, a foreign word for a foreign interpretation. I think the sentence he wrote in Kyohan would have said, "use the chinese reading". Instead what he says is "understand the name in this way" which to me says, "this is why I'm calling a series of combat techniques the oxymoronic name Peace and Tranquility".

I think it’s fair to say that he will have considered the default Japanese reading. Where I differ if that I feel his clarification is an instruction to look beyond that default reading. We have labelled it “Chinese” (because that would be their default reading), but I thinks it’s fair to say that the alternate meaning of the characters (separately and combined) will be familiar to the Japanese reader.

DaveB wrote:
Honestly though, one theory is as good as another until someone builds a time machine.

True and, most importantly, both point to the core message that the Pinan / Heian kata represent a holistic physical self-protection system.

I also wonder if the inventor of the time machine will be brave enough to refuse all these requests from martial artists who want these historical nuances cleared up? ;-)

Thanks Dave!

All the best,

Iain

Th0mas
Th0mas's picture

Wow, what a great thread... I know the thread is the equivalent of karate navel gazing and may be viewed with puzzlement by the non-initiated... But the navel can be a great thing to contemplate if you have an unhealthy interest in belly button fluff.

Marc
Marc's picture

Th0mas wrote:

Wow, what a great thread... I know the thread is the equivalent of karate navel gazing and may be viewed with puzzlement by the non-initiated... But the navel can be a great thing to contemplate if you have an unhealthy interest in belly button fluff.

LOL, thanks, you made my day! :)  

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Th0mas wrote:
Wow, what a great thread... I know the thread is the equivalent of karate navel gazing and may be viewed with puzzlement by the non-initiated... But the navel can be a great thing to contemplate if you have an unhealthy interest in belly button fluff.

Brilliant! Yeah, these little details can the martial equivalent of umbilicus fluff … but I think our fascination with these things is part of what makes the traditional martial arts appealing. And why martial artists are fun people to spend time with … Eccentrics all! :-)