Bassai Dai Shuto application

Here's one to be going on with.

Thanks for that, I kind of had something similar as for a take down.

Still not too sure why I would not be looking at the enemy once I took him down though.

Is that just due to the kata though. Making sure that I am looking forward incase somebody else comes.!!!

its getting late here in melbourne so I am off for the night.!!!!

Craig

tubbydrawers wrote:

I am referring to the shuto near the end of the kata where you do a shuto at a 45 degree angle but you are looking in the opposite direction,

I do have some applications for shuto myself and from Iain’s dvd but was wondering what do people think regarding why I am looking away from the strike.

My take on this is that it is an “exaggeration” that has became part of the standardised form. If you compare it with the Shito-Ryu version, we see that the arm motion is far more “subtle”:

The arm motion has became so stylised in some versions (Shotokan, Wado, Etc) that it looks like a separate technique (i.e. another shuto) as opposed to being part of the preceding or following move (depending on how you divide up the kata). Because this is not a distinct move in itself, we find ourselves always looking at the enemy. If you look at many versions of the kata you can see that “rear shuto” is not there. Like in this version of Matsumura Bassai for example:

If we are to view it as a seperate technique, I like the application for it shown by Vince Morris and that certainly makes sense to me. However, if we don’t see it as a technique in itself, we could also see that small movement as being nothing more than ensuring that kata has us start from the right position and prevent the previous motion interfering.

The point is that I would not get too fixated on the direction of the look or the distinct application of a motion that is in all probability the result of standardisation and over-exaggeration as opposed to function. Although we can attribute some functional applications to it, my view is that if we see it as a subtle motion related to the following technique, we are likely to get closer to the original intention.

All the best,

Iain

We don't have shuto uchi for these movements, but use SaguriTe (Searching Hands) for these movements.

We do these in Naihanchi, with a sweeping leg movement, or leg lift (It's a trip).

The Shuto IMO is a standardisation in itself, in this kata as it's covered well in Pinan Shodan.

The SaguriTe technique is to do with sensitivity, sticking, passing - some subtle strikes and also grappling.

The bunkai shown by Morris sensei is of course very good.

It is also possible that it is just a remnant of the "old school" shotokan way of doing the Shuto uke. In Bill Burgars book he gives intrepretation of both what he calls modern shoto uke (the way we are all used to see these days) and what he calls "old school" shotokan way of doing it. The old way was shown like it is performed in todays Taekwondo with both hands starting from behind. It fits perfectly with starting point from where the mysterious "back shoto uke" in question ends. So maybe it is not three shoto uke but one modern one, and one "old" one?

When the change between the "old" way and the "modern" way happened I do not know, and the only source I have that Shotokan used to do the block the "old" way is Bill Burgars book, as well as the fact that Shotokan`s "younger sister" martial art Taekwondo do it the way they are doing. Since they "divorced" Shotokan in the 30s and 40s it stands to reason that they might have kept the old shotokan way of performing the block. (I say late 30s because some of the founders of the old Kwan like Lee Won Kuk traveled from Japan in the late 30s if I am not mistaken).

All the best:-)