16 posts / 0 new
Last post
Tau
Tau's picture
The First Part of Heian Yondan, with Hands Open

The following video is self explanatory. The version of Heian Yondan that I learned started with the hands open and I got thinking about why this was. When I came up with an initial explanation, other things naturally fitted into place.

Of course, feedback is gratefully received

JWT
JWT's picture

Hi Tau

Thanks for sharing. smiley It's great to see people stepping up and sharing ideas.

A nice collection of approaches, some perhaps more combat or situation effective than others, but the ones that were prehaps less practical still teaching good principles.  Some moves there the same as ones I did in my first book, other moves I've seen people like Rick Clark do, so you're not in bad company. 

While I recognise that opening the hand increases its width fractionally, I'm not sure I'm convinced that your application for the hands down / hands up needs to be done with open hands to be effective.

In summary - I enjoyed the video.  Good clear presentation, interesting ideas.  Definitely not a turkey. cheeky

Jason Lester
Jason Lester's picture

Hi Tau, hope you are well.

Great application for trhe opening movements of Heian Yondan, cant say ive seen that one before, i really like it. thanks for posting smiley

Shall try that one out tmoz night in class smiley

Kind regards,

Jason

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Thanks for posting this! I think this is very interesting and is sure to be enjoyed by all those who practise the form in a Shotokan style (i.e. the hands dropping down and back before rising). A great addition! Thank you!

All the best,

Iain

Black Tiger
Black Tiger's picture

Nice, Don't practice the Pinan/Heians but it is similar to a Kata Chil Sung Ee Ro Hyung from Tang Soo Do (Mu Duk Kwan)

One thing I've noticed...

For Me to be a Senior Yudansha do I need to grow a "Goatie"

Tau
Tau's picture

Black Tiger wrote:
For Me to be a Senior Yudansha do I need to grow a "Goatie"

Nope. Nor own a turkey!

Sofia
Sofia's picture

We have a similar start to Pinan Yondan in Shorin Ryu, but we start with the hands "stacked" on top of each other (palms up) with a few centimeters apart before we throw them up in the "blocks" at the start.

Very interesting bunkai, and will try to test it out on a training soon!

Peregrine
Peregrine's picture

The opening of the hands reminds me of what I've been taught to to when grabbed in the aikido I've been taught and the Daito-ryu I've seen.

It was explained to me as creating tension in the wrist to fixate the grabber on grabbing instead of permitting them to redirect attention.  Not sure how that matched with modern studies on attention fixation but it's not unusual in the MA that I've seen.

Perry

Tau
Tau's picture

Peregrine wrote:

The opening of the hands reminds me of what I've been taught to to when grabbed in the aikido I've been taught and the Daito-ryu I've seen.

I can certainly see Aikido's Ikkyo in there but I think that's more coincidence as there's no flow into Ikkyo properly or conclusion to the hold

JWT
JWT's picture

Hi Tau

Have you tried Rick Clark's dropping and opening of the hands (with inward turning of the thumbs) as a full nelson defence?

Finlay
Finlay's picture

very nice application, i can see an easy kokyoho from aikido there, and i think that is am move that is one- ignored alot and two - is oresent in akot fo kata

well done

Peregrine
Peregrine's picture

Tau wrote:

Peregrine wrote:

The opening of the hands reminds me of what I've been taught to to when grabbed in the aikido I've been taught and the Daito-ryu I've seen.

I can certainly see Aikido's Ikkyo in there but I think that's more coincidence as there's no flow into Ikkyo properly or conclusion to the hold

I meant rather the idea of opening the hand as the grab goes on, which I was taught to apply across a wide variety of counter techniques.

shoshinkanuk
shoshinkanuk's picture

Tau,

Nice Bunkai just a couple of observations,

1. I see the attackers force is redirected in the step back, but if dynamic could they not just crash into you?

2. Assuming they do not and you move into the raise the hands piece, whats to stop them grappling/restricting your arms coming up, your weights all back and this would be difficult to effect?

I understand it's Bunkai, not Oyo but it's these kind of things I always look out for- when we train slowly the attackers reactions tend to be unnatural.

Tau
Tau's picture

@JWT: regards Rick Clark's full nelson defence, no I haven't. From experience I don't have a lot of faith in defences against the full nelso, apart from not letting the hold be put on

@Finlay: I'm an Aikido dan grade and I've never heard of Kykyoho. I am familiar with Kokyonage, of course. I shall look it up

@Peregrin: I think we're talking about the same thing. Certainly I can see the initial hold, but the kata doesn't present Ikkyo (or nikkyo, sankyo, yonkyo or Kaitenage) afterwards. Some other kata show nikyo really well

@Shoshinkan: yeah, maybe. 

The main objective of this was to consider why, in the version of the kata that I've learned, you start with the hands open. After I'd made the first movement, which really was just a trial, the rest fell into the place; the x-block and throw, the options from the rest of the kata and the angles and choice of stances. I'm under no illusion that it's not perfect. The one critique I would give of myself is that after all of this... it doesn't actually matter if the hands start open or closed!

JWT
JWT's picture

Tau wrote:

@JWT: regards Rick Clark's full nelson defence, no I haven't. From experience I don't have a lot of faith in defences against the full nelso, apart from not letting the hold be put on

That's what it's for.  The drop and hand turn biomechanically prevents the person from being able to complete the hold.  I demonstrated the same application in my book.  I now do a more failsafe follow through than the subsequent hand raising control I showed in the text (High Sankyo) which requires the other person to keep their hands open.

Dantheman
Dantheman's picture

I like this one.  Thank you for sharing.