8 posts / 0 new
Last post
BSnyder
BSnyder's picture
Gi and No Gi

Hi,

I noticed that on some of Iain's videos he shows techniques that use the gi. I have also seen others do the same. If you have a technique that uses the gi, Do you have no gi versions of those sequences in the kata or do you modify it for no gi?

Thanks,

Bruce

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

BSnyder wrote:
If you have a technique that uses the gi, Do you have no gi versions of those sequences in the kata or do you modify it for no gi?

I think this really comes down to the technique in question. Because karateka tend to train in gis, methods that involve pulling on clothing, using the clothing to strangle, etc are applied against the gi in training. However, the gi is not always a perfect analogue for everyday clothing. Those who have been to seminars will be aware that I will often show the “t-shirt” version for certain methods.

There are some methods that use clothing that can easily be swapped back and forth with a no clothing version i.e. gripping the arm or the sleeve. However, some are entirely clothing dependant i.e. sliding strangles (okuri-eri-jime).

Where it’s appropriate to practice with alternative forms of clothing then we should. Where “gi” and “no-gi” versions exist then both should be practised. In my dojo we do both and prior to any variation in our bunkai drills, we have a mix of methods shown so that people can use clothing against the enemy but are not reliant on it. Likewise, we practise dealing with both body grips and clothing grips.

Good to cover all the bases in my view.

All the best,

Iain

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

I tend to take a similar approach to Iain's; trying to keep the majority of the techniques unreliant on the gi, but teaching a few gi techniques with variations, as well. One thing that I have to consider, of course, is that I live in a place that is VERY hot for half the year, and only really "cold" (not by everyone's standards, even) for maybe two months. That means that while people in other places may be able to rely on grabbing long sleeves or jackets where they live, I have a very short window of time where that is a viable option. I think that does tend to make me avoid too much gi-reliant material in training.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Wastelander wrote:
One thing that I have to consider, of course, is that I live in a place that is VERY hot for half the year, and only really "cold" (not by everyone's standards, even) for maybe two months. That means that while people in other places may be able to rely on grabbing long sleeves or jackets where they live, I have a very short window of time where that is a viable option. I think that does tend to make me avoid too much gi-reliant material in training.

Excellent point! The climate will impact on this. In my case, I live in a place that is cold and wet for the vast majority of the year … but the stereotypical view of Northerners refusing to wear what others would deem weather appropriate clothing is not without foundation. People will wear “summer clothes” in the middle of winter, especially when socialising. Culture and climate will therefore have an influence.

All the best,

Iain

davidom
davidom's picture

I find this topic quite interesting, since it also taps into how well we keep sight of the context for which we are training and its nuances. Iain made a point about how it is it's good to cover all bases, which I couldn't agree more. It's also good to prioritize based on the likelihood of each situation, like Noah points out.

I'd like to also offer my view that as with all techniques, whether we are considering grips that are exclusive to gi or not, we have to be aware of both the strengths and weaknesses. What I mean is that, if we train grips, but we're also aware of the possible vulnerabilities of such techniques (the clothes tearing up, sweat and/or blood making us slip the grip of it's on the skin), then we can also train for when grips fail. So that even if we lean more towards one or other types of grips, having a back up plan also negates or at least mitigates the risk of not having trained to handle a certain piece of clothing, or going for a technique that only works with gi, instinctually.

Regardless, I had fun pondering this question and the answers given and I think it helped me learn a little bit, so thank you!

Best,

David

PS: Iain, I've seen British people with summer clothes, tending a barbecue, with an umbrella and raining like mad. So I'll believe anything about clothes and weather contradictions.

Tau
Tau's picture

I have a friend who I hold in high regard as a martial artist. Indeed I think he's underated in his knowldge and ability. He teaches "hood-jitsu." That is, he has his student attend in hoodies or similar and training in those. This adapts what he's teaching to the modern-day culture and accounts for specifics of that clothing,

PASmith
PASmith's picture

One of the main things that bothers me about the "gi/no gi" debate is people fixate on what the other guy is/isn't wearing. There are two sides to it. How you can use the other guy's clothing to your advantage and how he can use your clothing against you. A gi also includes the trousers as well as the gi top and that seems to get forgotten too.

If the other guy is wearing a t-shirt rather than a gi then you won't be able to adopt the same grips for throwing or choking, controlling limbs, etc. That's true. Although I've seen a few BJJ guys show they can adapt gi chokes  to use a rolled up t-shirt instead.

BUT...I'm currently wearing a fairly thick (and rather fetching) Iain Abernethy hoodie and a pair of jeans. And as such a lot of the techniques and grips of fighting in a gi can be applied on me even if the other guy is just dressed in speedoes (which admitedly would make for a very bizarre fight indeed) and I can't apply them on him.

My "lapel" can be grabbed and used to control me (not in the same way as a thick judo gi but definite cross over). My clothing might get pulled over my head or face mid-fight and I'll have to deal with that. If I'm attempting to use my legs (kicking, fending off when prone, using a grappling guard) my jeans hems can be grabbed and moved to one side so I'll need to be able to free my legs. My sleeves can be grabbed and controlled (again not with the same level of restraint as a cotton gi but there is some similarilties).

As with most things in martial arts I think it pays to be diverse, identify your training goals and work towards them and "triangulate" those goals using a variety of methods that support the flaws inherent in any training method.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

PASmith wrote:
BUT...I'm currently wearing a fairly thick (and rather fetching) Iain Abernethy hoodie and a pair of jeans. And as such a lot of the techniques and grips of fighting in a gi can be applied on me even if the other guy is just dressed in speedoes (which admittedly would make for a very bizarre fight indeed) and I can't apply them on him.

Great observation! Assuming we do prefer “fetching Iain Abernethy hoodies” over speedos as our daily dress – and if any of you don’t, then I think counselling is strongly advised – then learning to deal with clothing grips is of great importance.

All the best,

Iain