11 posts / 0 new
Last post
Lionel Froidure
Lionel Froidure's picture
Jion Introduction

Hello Guys,

Here is my latest video about this time the first sequence of Jion.

Aiming to the point that it's important, in my point of view, to focus on the entry of the technique rather than the finality. With a "good" entry, you can do plenty things. Lets me know what you think about it.

Don't forget to turn on subtitles as I am talking french.

Cheers

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Very nice! I agree with the wider point about the kata putting you in a position to finish as necessary too. We don’t need to slavishly follow the kata; we can impact and escape as required.

While I like what is shown, the opening would contravene one of my personal rules of bunkai (and which is reflected in Mabuni’s writing): The angle in the kata show the angle taken relative to the enemy. So, while the kata does the first motion straight forward, your application has you assume a 90-degree angle. I would therefore expect the motion to be performed at 90-degrees if this was the original intent.

My three key tests for bunkai are:

1) It works (most important!).

2) It is true to the kata.

3) it is not at variance with anything the past masters told us about the nature of kata.

I feel what is shown would work and it does follow the kata, but it would be contrary to what Mabuni said about angles (also reflected by Motobu when taking about Naihanchi (Tekki) i.e. the sideways motion means we take a sideways position to the enemy).

Here is my take on the start:

 

As I say, I like what you show … but simply wanted to give my own thoughts and provide an alternative view.

All the best,

Iain

Mark B
Mark B's picture

My takes on this/these sequences.

Mark B
Mark B's picture

I didn't have time when I posted my video yesterday to explain my take on things. I agree with Iain that the Kata doesn't actually teach a 90 degree shift, so to take up that position is not really what that sequence is teaching. What you can do however as I demonstrate is to receive THEIR energy and use the entry to press so that THEY move 90 degrees or thereabouts to YOU. Then, as has been mentioned it's a case of what If? I demonstrate a few entries from the opening motion which can all be supported by the two 45 degree sequences depending on how things evolve. Regards

Lionel Froidure
Lionel Froidure's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:

As I say, I like what you show … but simply wanted to give my own thoughts and provide an alternative view.

Hi Iain, 

Thanks for your input. Don't worry, I don't feel any bad feeling on your saying. I appreciate the input. Like you said, it provides an alternative point of view.  I am sharing one way, not THE way. Also like your video too. That's what I like in this community. Everyone can learn for everybody, just need to listen and think about it. 

Have a great day. 

Lionel

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Lionel Froidure wrote:
I am sharing one way, not THE way. Also like your video too. That's what I like in this community. Everyone can learn for everybody, just need to listen and think about it.

Thank you! That’s always the aim :-) We add to the collective knowledge pool so our fellow karateka can take what the need. Karate as a whole then benefits.

In keeping with this idea, I shared your video on Facebook yesterday:

https://www.facebook.com/iainabernethy/posts/1639858219404754

Got a lot of likes :-)

All the best,

Iain

dhogsette
dhogsette's picture

I don't do this kata, so I'm in no position to comment on specifics, as others have done so well. I just really, really, really like the smooth linking of the sequence in application and the decisive, effective limb control. These are skills that I'm working more on and trying to get my students to develop. Nicely done! I also like the sweep option, since the enemy is already leaning backward--take him down, quick strike, and get away. Very cool. 

Best,

David 

Marc
Marc's picture

Hi Lionel,

thanks for sharing your ideas.

I like the flow of it, and all the elements sure work. Also well presented. :)

May I suggest one thing though? After your initial move (the parry-pass and strike to the floating ribs) you have assumed an advantageous position on the outside of your opponent. Then with the next move you return to the inside and re-enter the danger zone. Instead you could stay on the outside and control or finish your opponent from there. - Your application for the Kakiwake-Uke/... still works, though, as an alternative if after the parry you end up on the inside.

All the best,

Marc  

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Marc wrote:
After your initial move (the parry-pass and strike to the floating ribs) you have assumed an advantageous position on the outside of your opponent. Then with the next move you return to the inside and re-enter the danger zone.

My assumption when viewing was that the thinking was the enemy pushes back, so the karate kata yields so they don’t have to resist the force or become unbalanced. That puts them back on the inside, which is less advantageous that being on the outside generally, but a better option to negate the force of a stronger enemy. Lionel’s head is also off to one side and away from the back hand of his partner, even though he is on the inside of the arm (45 seconds). The strike to the jaw also prevents the enemy from correcting their line.

On my video above, I do stay on the outside and push the arm across to prevent the enemy from turning (which I think is what you are describing?), but if the enemy was able to forcefully push back, I would yield.

All the best,

Iain

Marc
Marc's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:
My assumption when viewing was that the thinking was the enemy pushes back, so the karate kata yields so they don’t have to resist the force or become unbalanced. That puts them back on the inside, which is less advantageous that being on the outside generally, but a better option to negate the force of a stronger enemy.

Yes, I did not see it that way, but that makes sense, of course.

Jordan Giarratano
Jordan Giarratano's picture

Great videos! I love the various intepretations. Lionel, love the bit about have to make him uncomfortable, that's a great way to express the idea of putting them off-balance and at a disadvantaged position. Angle of attack is one way to avoid getting hit, another is disrupting posture. 

Jion is a new kata to me, so I'm very curious to learn more about it and explore the bits that inspired the pinans... Looking forward to learning more about Jion in the upcoming San Diego seminar :)