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Spaniard
Spaniard's picture
Naihanchi/Tekki application or conincidence

This looked exactly like the opening moves from Naihanchi/Tekki to me.  Coincidence?  Unacknowledged bunkai/karate training?  Universality of movement? (Skip to 1:11 to cut to the chase.)

Best Regards,

Erik P.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

That’s a great find! Thanks for sharing it. For me, the clinch itself is found in the opening move of the form and the counter shown are the motions following that. Almost identical methods are on my “Beyond Bunkai” and “Seminar 3” DVDs; both of which focus on Naihanchi / Tekki.

As to why different systems have similar methods, I think we can put that down to the fact that what works, works. Different people, cultures, styles are going to independently come up with similar solutions to violence based on the commonality of the human body.

We sometimes like to think that one person or system came up with an idea and it then spreads to other systems, but that’s faulty thinking to me. As an example, you can find the hip throw in wrestling, judo, karate, and even my native art of Cumberland and Westmoreland wresting. But that does not mean that one person came up with it and then went on a world tour (complete with time travel) to inform the Greeks, the Japanese Samurai, the Okinawan karateka, and the Norse-Irish settlers in my part of their world of their find. All these different cultures found out for themselves that it was a good way to thrown someone.

Another good example is bows and arrows. That technology has been used by practically all cultures. These cultures were separated by great distances and time and were entirely unaware of one another; but they all worked out independently that this was a great way to hunt and fight at a distance.

It’s the same with all the various schools of martial arts. What works, works and hence there is sure to be lots of cross over. That cross over does not necessitate a common source however.

Some I know once remarked to me that the styles are not really defined by what we do (because that will be determined by the objective and hence will always be similar), but how we chose to train what we do. I think that is largely true.

All the best,

Iain

Black Tiger
Black Tiger's picture

Totally agree, it's Naihanchi but they don't know they're doing it

Got to Share it on my FB page

JWT
JWT's picture

I agree with Iain and Black Tiger.

I shared this on my facebook page because I could see elements and variations of Tekki and the Pinan/Passai/Kushanku/Sochin in their little demonstration.

I'd also point out that there are sadly a fair number of karate people who'd look at that clip and not see the kata, because when they look at the kata they don't have that kind of 'context' or understanding.  That doesn't mean their karate is bad, but they are working to a different script.

John Titchen

jeffc
jeffc's picture

Although I am no historical expert, Hanshi Patrick McCarthy (who is an historical expert!) has written at length about the influence of the Siamese martial arts (from which Muay Boran and later Muay Thai evolved).  I wonder if this is an example of such an influence. 

When you take into account the level of travel and trade between different countries throughout history, it is no doubt that fighters have seen techniques elsewhere and taken them into their own arsenal, and also "discovered" the same techniques for themselves in their own training. 

Regards

Jeff

Jr cook
Jr cook's picture

I live about three miles from this guy. I can go by his gym and ask if you guys want! wink

However, I have a feeling that they don't practice katas often from what I have seen in the gym.

ky0han
ky0han's picture

Hi,

a qick search on Wikipedia reveals that this guy has a black belt in Taekwondo so I guess he knows the form (whatever it is called in Taekwondo).

JSP and Machida also have Karate backgrounds and are successfull MMA Fighters. So cross training can help figure out similarities.

Regards Holger

nielmag
nielmag's picture

jeffc wrote:

Although I am no historical expert, Hanshi Patrick McCarthy (who is an historical expert!) has written at length about the influence of the Siamese martial arts (from which Muay Boran and later Muay Thai evolved).  I wonder if this is an example of such an influence. 

When you take into account the level of travel and trade between different countries throughout history, it is no doubt that fighters have seen techniques elsewhere and taken them into their own arsenal, and also "discovered" the same techniques for themselves in their own training. 

Regards

Jeff

Here is Patrick McCarthy's article on siamese boxing's influence on karate.  Its truly fascinating.  I personally believe that theres been a lot of cross pollinization among the eastern arts (kungfu, Karate, Muay thai, kali, etc) and also theres a ton of "what works, works" as Iain said.  

http://irkrs.blogspot.com/2013/04/siamese-boxing-original-source-of.html