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rafanapa
rafanapa's picture
Naming a technique from one of Iain's books

I've been experimenting with arm-locks from kakie recently, and I find myself using the same one quite a lot. Specifically, it is "Bent arm-lock 10" from "Arm-locks for all styles", where the right arm is controlled behind the back by the left arm.

I've been trying to explain this to people, but I'm finding it tricky. Does this have a standard (Japanese) name that I can use to give people a reference.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

rafanapa wrote:
I've been experimenting with arm-locks from kakie recently, and I find myself using the same one quite a lot. Specifically, it is "Bent arm-lock 10" from "Arm-locks for all styles", where the right arm is controlled behind the back by the left arm.

I've been trying to explain this to people, but I'm finding it tricky. Does this have a standard (Japanese) name that I can use to give people a reference

I had to get the book of the shelf! It’s commonly called a “hammer lock” and that’s probably the term that will best help communicate it (aside from showing them a picture). It’s pretty much what everyone calls it; and even if they don’t use that specific term, most will know what you mean by it.

There’s a few variation shown of “Bent Arm-Lock 10” in the book (standing and on the floor), all of which could be accurately described as “hammer-locks”.

All the best,

Iain

rafanapa
rafanapa's picture

Cheers Iain,

You've confirmed what I always thought, that a hammerlock was effectively anything where the arm was bent at a right angle behind the back (all the way back to Farmer Burns).

It would have been nice if this had a specific name like a juji-gatame, so I could pass it on for reference.

Thanks,

Steve

Marc
Marc's picture

rafanapa wrote:

I've been trying to explain this to people, but I'm finding it tricky. Does this have a standard (Japanese) name that I can use to give people a reference.

Try a dictionary: http://tangorin.com/dict.php?dict=general&s=hammerlock

Appearently the Japanese term for "hammerlock" is "hammerlock". One would expect them to have an original Japanese expression for this. Well, maybe they do, but by the dictionary "hammerlock" seems at least acceptable.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

I don't happen to have that book of Iain's, although I know that there are quite a few variations of hammerlock. Can you find a photo of the one in question?

Tau
Tau's picture

Tatsui ude kansetsu (hammer arm destruction?) Where's Gavin when you need him?

I should add (without reaching for Iain's book to check how he does it) that most people's experience with the traditional hammerlock is that it isn't that effective. It becomes effective with the hand is pulled away from the body to rotate the upper arm or when a wrist lock is applied as part of it

rafanapa
rafanapa's picture

I can't find a picture of the precise one, and I don't have anyone here to take one :) It's basically a hammerlock on the right arm, where their right wrist is in the crook of your left elbow, and your left hand is reaching around their right tricep/bicep. I learned it as an application to the first move of Nijushiho, and I quite like it as a) the rotation of their arm/shoulder is quite easy, and b) you only use one arm to restrain them while being relatively off to one side.

I agree that adding a wristlock or similar is beneficial, and we have also been playing with those. I do like the fact that this one leaves you flexibility with the other arm.

From researching names a bit more, it is probably an ude-garami, in the sense that any hammerlock seems to be called that.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

So kind of like this, then?

I'm sure you could come up with a long, descriptive Japanese name, or you could use the generic "ude-garami" (arm entanglement) that can be used to classify all bent arm locks that attack the elbow or shoulder. In the Japanese Jujutsu system that my Sensei learned, it was called "hiji-dori" (elbow press). It's not exactly the same as what's pictured, above, but close enough to get the point across, I think.

Steve Gombosi
Steve Gombosi's picture

Tau wrote:

Tatsui ude kansetsu (hammer arm destruction?) Where's Gavin when you need him?

"Kansetsu" doesn't mean "destruction". It just means "joint" or "segment".

Tau
Tau's picture

I sit corrected.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Wastelander wrote:
I don't happen to have that book of Iain's, although I know that there are quite a few variations of hammerlock. Can you find a photo of the one in question?

I had to go to the old computer to get it … but this is the end photographs of that sequence :-) There are others that show how to get into it – and there is a photo showing how the lock and choke combination is found in Rohai kata – but this is the end position for the two variations shown in that section (there are others in other sections).

As we can see, it’s not one specific lock, but a type of lock (which is how I tend to think and organise things) so “hammer lock” would probably be the way to go … although I’m also OK with just numbering them :-)

rafanapa wrote:
It's basically a hammerlock on the right arm, where their right wrist is in the crook of your left elbow, and your left hand is reaching around their right tricep/bicep.

That’s pretty much what one arm is doing, but the right arm being across the throat is an important part of it for me. It puts you in a control position where the enemy can’t turn out of the lock. Also, although the manipulation of the arm helps get them in this position; once they are here there’s no great stress on the joints (i.e. the enemy moving away from the initial stress is what got them here).

Joint-locks don’t just have a submission / destruction role, we can also use them to initiate predictable movement via the fact that people will instinctively move away from pain to a place with no pain i.e. if a bar the elbow, the enemy will bend at the waist to take the pressure off … which makes it easier to hit them in the head and it also establishes a position of dominance. That’s what I’m doing on the first technique.

On the second one, pulling the arm away from the back means they want to move through the floor … which they can’t. This would therefore be a technique to cause injury. Or, if you we working as part of a team, it would be a technique to push them into the floor to gain control for handcuffing etc.

rafanapa wrote:
From researching names a bit more, it is probably an ude-garami, in the sense that any hammerlock seems to be called that.

I’d go with that. It is essentially one of the variations of ude-garami. There is also not one hammerlock either (see picture above). Hammerlocks are a range of techniques where the arm is pushed up the back. Just as western wrestling uses the term “hammerlock” for the many variations of that type of technique; it’s not uncommon to see the same in Japanese arts with regards to ude-garami.

Here is an interesting video showing some the Hammerlock variations from the likes of Farmer Burns, Georges Hackendschmidt, etc.

Back to the original point, if you were to use a specific detailed Japanese term for the technique, no one would know what you meant because such a term is not in widespread use. Such methods are most commonly referred to as “hammerlocks” and because that is the widespread name for the technique that would be the wise term to use. If a Japanese term was felt to be a must, then it is essentially one of the ude-garami variations.

All the best,

Iain

JWT
JWT's picture

Ah, one of the things I would call a figure 4 due to the positions of the arms! :) John

Gavin J Poffley
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Looks like I got here a little late. Sorry about that, been on the road working for a month.

Not a great deal to add really other than yes, the Japanese pro-wrestling community do indeed use the English term "hammer lock" (adapted to Japanese phonetics and pronounced as "hanmaa rokku" though) and that is probably what most non martial artist Japanese people who recognised the technique would call it.

From a traditional jujutsu standpoint it is indeed one of the ude garami (arm entanglement) family of techniques, although "ude garami" alone does not specify that the arm has to be behind the back.