Nijushiho / Niseishi Application

Nice Application to Nijushiho.

Hi John

That is a very nice interpretation of that movement.

I am curious to understand how effective it would be with an attacker driving with agression and force in the tackle..It would be good to see you perform it with a slightly less compliant  partner in a live drill. Do you have any footage of that?

Cheers

Tom

Hi Tom

I'm planning on doing a shorter video soon on the Shuto anti-tackle application which is a precursor to this Nijushiho application.  

We regularly do the tackle defence against resiting people, and we've practiced transitioning to this hold (as we do with all our controls) against a resisting person - but I stress that tackle is designed to be an unskilled dive into the person,  neither wrestling nor rugby are common here and tackles are really a rather secondary concern.  I do have footage of Chris (who is my static partner in this drill) adapting our tackle defence against a trainee who tries to tackle him to escape being punched in the face.  In this video (shown before here) Chris is role playing the bad guy against a bigger opponent in a contact acclimatisation exercise.  From 0:53 onwards the trainee (a Shotokan instructor) tries to hold Chris at bay while Chris flails with wild punches, but as this proves unsuccessful goes for the tackle.  Without thinking about it Chris applies a rough version of the shuto tackle defence (especially as he has to counter turn) and guides the trainee into the ground - followed by the trainee roundhouse kicking him into submission (caught him on a floating rib).

I'll try and get the specific video done soon.

John Titchen

Black Tiger wrote:

Nice Application to Nijushiho.

Thanks

John Titchen

Looking again at this, I wonder whether people react differently to bunkai when it is presented as 'controls' or 'holds' as opposed to fight ending techniques.  Our immediate priority in a confrontation (that has gone physical) will be the protection of ourselves and others from harm by the assailant, but I'm sure that situations where the assailant is a person we don't wish or need to harm have also always been the case, so finding movements that can be applied in that context should not be surprising.

Thanks John for the second video, it certainly made me chuckle :-)

I love what you do on your sumulation days (?)...Translating "static" bunkai Theory into non-compliant appliations can lead to, what appear on the surface, to be counter-intuative conclusions.. what intially seems to be a very neat or simple solution/application when done statically can often become unworkable in the fire of a non-compliant assailant. 

Last night I was trying to play around with your application and just couldn't get it work effectively with even a compliant partner.... wasn't till I had a look at your video again this morning that I missed the vital controlling shuto application..Doh!  Ironically I focus or postion most of what I do off Shuto...clearly it is not inbedded enough (...must train harder  ) 

Th0mas wrote:

Thanks John for the second video, it certainly made me chuckle :-)

I love what you do on your sumulation days (?)...Translating "static" bunkai Theory into non-compliant appliations can lead to, what appear on the surface, to be counter-intuative conclusions.. what intially seems to be a very neat or simple solution/application when done statically can often become unworkable in the fire of a non-compliant assailant. 

Last night I was trying to play around with your application and just couldn't get it work effectively with even a compliant partner.... wasn't till I had a look at your video again this morning that I missed the vital controlling shuto application..Doh!  Ironically I focus or postion most of what I do off Shuto...clearly it is not inbedded enough (...must train harder  ) 

Hi Th0mas

The key to the control is to move away from the other person at a right angle while pressing down on the golgi tendon with their arm at a right angle.  There are various things that can go wrong, as with any holding technique.  

To get into the basic control, and achieve the right angle, the pushing away of the head is often necessary.  I've used the Shuto technique to do this.  Now it could be argued that this negates the application since 'shuto uke' is not really featured in this Kata - but the technique of pushing the head is closer to the tate shuto uke.  Alternatively, in terms of repertoire, I might see Nijushiho as a 'bolt on' to my core Heian/Pinan repertoire.  From that perspective if I was drilling the Heian Flow System at any point I might spin off into some Nijushiho bunkai.

Once you begin the control position, unless you move away quite sharply the other person will naturally  move in response to the pressure on their arm, turning towards you.  If this happens you can either put more pressure on the arm and do a circular turn into the ground, or try the step back drag down (as per the original movement) or rise up (as per the secpnd part of the application).  I've yet to play with it in detail but I believe the circular 'dance' downwards leads to a potential application for the downwards striking movement in the middle of the Kata.  0:49 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVe0VtPog5c

0:32 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVe0VtPog5c

0:24 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEvi_8P8Oww

Funnily enough I also think I can link the the double upward strikes (Kiai) to dealing with an upward spin out of the control.  I'll have a play with that next week.

JWT wrote:

To get into the basic control, and achieve the right angle, the pushing away of the head is often necessary.  I've used the Shuto technique to do this.  Now it could be argued that this negates the application since 'shuto uke' is not really featured in this Kata - but the technique of pushing the head is closer to the tate shuto uke.

I really don't believe using shuto negates the application. I look at shuto as just another varient of "crossing your arms" which I believe is one of the key underlying mechanisms that underpins a  large proportion of applictions in karate. Arguably all the "traditional blocking" techniques can be lumped under this catagory, they are just applied differently and when performed in solo  they take on a different form.

Actually, now I have thought about it, the openning movement in Nijushiho is peforming the same function as your shuto...

Anyway please carry on, I am looking forward to the next installment. :)

Hi Th0mas

I've been laid low for the last few weeks with a fever and tonsilitis.  I've got a previously shot video on something else that I'll upload and then in the next week or two I'll look at filming some other short clips with the shuto and tackle being at the top of the list.

John Titchen