Order of kata

In Goju the order of kata is absolutely critical.

Goju of course translates as Hard Soft and the implication is that the training starts with the harder more Go aspects and develops into the softer Ju side of things.

The first kata, Gekesai Dai Ichi, means 'attack and smash number one' and directs the first 6 months to a year of training towards hardlne , direct, smashing attack. Not a great deal of subtelty about it but it does develop a good attacking never-give-up mindset which, to my mind underpins any ability to fight for real in the long term.

The second kata - Gekisai Dai Ni, (attack and smash number two) puts some subtlety of positioning and footwork around this basic ability so your period of training in this kata is all about gaining positional advantage before attacking and smashing your opponent.

The third kata, Saifa, (Tearing) moves the fight in closer to the point where the student has been grabbed. This phase of training is all about escaping grabs and holds to get the fight back to the open format that they are now most familiar with.

The fourth kata is a grapling kata, Seiunchin (Trapping Battle) and this is all about engaging in grappling (tand up and on the ground) rather than trying to escape from it.

That takes you up to Black Belt and as such, the student has covered - and hopefully gained a basic competence in - all of the possible fighting ranges.

To take any of these kata out of sequence would remove the logical aproach to combat outlined in the system as each phase brings the fight closer and closer and hopefully leaves the student confortable to fight in any of them.

BSnyder wrote:

Do you think it would be wise to start and fiinish with Pinan series before going into a different series of kata? or doesn't it matter?

Personally I see an important progression taking place through the Pinan kata and hence I feel the bunkai should be practised in order. Each kata teaches things that lead on to and prepare you for the next one. I also see the Pinan as a holistic system in their own right i.e. other kata are not needed to make them complete (my reasoning is explained in this article: http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/there-nothing-peaceful-about-pinans).

I therefore feel it is prudent to study the Pinans in an integrated fashion before moving onto other methods. We therefore practise the Pinans before moving on to Naihanchi as opposed to introducing it “midstream”.

As always, there is not one right way with all other ways being wrong. Your group may have a logical reason for approaching the kata in that order which better fits with their wider training ethos. What I mean is, that may be the right order for them and perfectily in line with their training goals. It could be worth asking the senior people in your ryu what the reasoning is behind the order?

As regards a personal answer to your question, yes I do think the order is important and from a bunkai perspective I prefer to complete the “Pinan System” before looking at other methodologies.

All the best,

Iain

Just been reading Funakoshi's book Tote Jutsu. Here he writes that "I have presented Binan Shodan (Heian Nidan) from the Shoalin style and Naihanchi (tekki) Shodan from the Shorei Style as the first lessons of "Training for the Foundations of Karate" sections." It seems to me that Funakoshi sees both of these a good kata for the basics of karate and as they come from two different "styles", then together they form a complete picture of the basic he wrote about in the book. Now I cant know for sure that he taught the same order, that he decided to put in this book. But it does show a reason why an order like "Matsumura Seito" may exist.

I see both the 5 Heian and 3 tekki as both seperate systems that encorporate all that is needed to gain a complete set of skills to fight with. Not saying that mixing them up is a bad thing itself, in fact I think it is  a tremendous advantage to be able use techniques from kata freely without and restriction. However through my training I have noticed that techniques found in Heian Kata compliment other techniques in other Heian Kata and the tekki kata techniques seem to flow better with each other also.

Because of this, I think its best to learn one set really well, rather than two sets combined and not fully gaining a real sense of how the techniques work with each other.

Thirty years ago, Enoeda Sensei was quite insistent that Beginners should learn the Heian series in the correct order - Over-ambitious kyu-grades, caught in the act of trying out new moves in the dojo, often received a ticking-off followed by an explanation (delivered by one of the Dan-grades) about the risk of running before you can walk etc. Of course back then, a cocky 17-year- old blue belt, I just thought they were protecting the strict hierarchy of seniority in the dojo by attempting to ring-fence the "secrets" of the advanced kata: why shouldn't I try something new, difficult and exciting?

It took time and reflection before I was able to appreciate fully the theoretical and practical reasons why kata are taught in a particular order (described so simply in Iain's post, below); which is possibly why senior western Dan-grades, training with Shihan Keigo Abe or Nagaki Sensei [JSKA] for the first time, are suprised to find themselves asked to perform Heian Shodan, by the count, with considerable attention to the detail of kihon.

Iain Abernethy wrote:

As always, there is not one right way with all other ways being wrong. Your group may have a logical reason for approaching the kata in that order which better fits with their wider training ethos. What I mean is, that may be the right order for them and perfectily in line with their training goals. It could be worth asking the senior people in your ryu what the reasoning is behind the order?

From what I understand Hohan Soken only taught the kata that were taught by his great grandfather Soken Matsumura. According to Hohan Soken, Soken Matsumura taught only Pinan shodan and nidan. The other Pinan were added to the system by his students.

Bruce

I must say this is an interesting topic, one I have contemplated much. I like Gavin’s thoughts and the further detail/explanations he goes into in his book about this topic.

However looking at it from another perspective, as I am aware, masters of the past only new a few kata (not like the 25+ some do today) and often only past one or two kata on to their students, choosing which kata to have them practice was I believe, dictated by the students build and combative character (what type of fighter they where and what natural skills they possessed). Therefore, to me, it would seem that these instructors would not be too concerned about an order but rather the value that each kata has within its niche of combat.

While I appreciate and understand the value of what Gavin has to say (and it was his great book that set my thought process down this path a few years ago) I perhaps now lean more towards the idea that each kata does cover each range (to a degree), to create an overall karate-ka (and yes I prescribe to the thinking that each kata is a complete style) when the kata is fully explored and utilized (in principles and tactics as well as methodology) while majoring in one range or a particular skill set or two (i.e. close range and grappling or mid to close range and limb control, etc…).

To this end if we studied kata as described above then I would suggest that order would not be nearly as important as fully exploring the kata, as many have said before ‘one kata is more than enough for a lifetime’

However saying this, this is generally NOT how modern instructors/schools work. So the value of a progressive system is of great value to students in this respect and this is where I come back round to fully agree with Gavin (when a system has multiple - 5+ - kata to lean and explore) but offer my opinion that this is a modern way of passing on the lessons that karate has to offer, and can see the value of knowing multiple kata as while each kata specializes in certain ranges and skills, it will too also have the inherent weaknesses that go hand in hand with this.  

cheers

Pete