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Graziano
Graziano's picture

Iain Abernethy wrote:
Kimura was subject to such a study. I knew there was photographs of this somewhere, but I could not find them. I spoke to Peter Consterdine who provided the photos below. In them you can see the experiment being explained and the testing that Kimura underwent as part of it. On the bottom left photo, the person sitting next to Kimura is Chōjirō Tani. Tani was Kimurai’s instructor and a student of Kenwa Mabuni.

In 2005 I interviewed Haruyoshi Yamada (also a student of Tani’s) and I asked him, “What are the main differences between Mabuni’s Shito-Ryu and Tani’s Shukokai?”

HARUYOSHI YAMADA: Tani Sensei was a high-school teacher and he therefore had a good understanding of physics. Tani Sensei was the first person to approach both Karate technique and body movement in a very scientific way. These innovations resulted in Tani Sensei placing a high emphasis on mental focus and scientific body movement. The combination of Tani’s knowledge of Karate, his knowledge of physics, and his understanding of how to communicate effectively meant that he was able to develop Shito-Ryu .... SNIP

I read this interesting post and I  have got some questions.

A

Which the difference beetween the method of double hip and traditional way of using the hip, the method teach on old Jka for eample? Nakayama talk about this method in his book if you can you should read the THE BEST KARATE VOLUME 2 there is a whole chapter dedicated to use of hip  he compares the action of the hips to that of a spring

http://nantanreikan.ca/Glossary/K/koshi%20kaiten/koshi%20kaiten.html

Read also DYNAMIC KARATE chapter 2 page 30-36 on scribd

https://www.scribd.com/doc/132880998/Dynamic-Karate).

B

On this article the author say of don't use the rotation of hip, because give less power to the punches

http://asaikarate.com/what-does-it-mean-by-there-is-no-gyaku-zuki-in-kar...

could give your opinion about it?

C

I saw this your video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80TkyaU1UJM

there is a strange way of use the legs, he seems to me boxe, kickboxing o similar I cannot see none of karate stances, why?

D

On karate shotokan for generare power is used the principle of action and reaction, trough the Hikite, but also pushing the feet on the floor, could you tell me something about it? Is it correct? I mean is correct 

1- pushing on the floor

2- using the hihitè

You should read the Nishiyama book

https://www.amazon.it/Karate-Empty-Hand-Fighting-Hidetaka-Nishiyama/dp/0...

F

Which the way more natural for we men and more correct from a point of view of biomechanics generate power on the strike? There  are so many styles

Greetings

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi Graziano,

Thanks for the post. I know the above questions were aimed at me specifically, but I’ve edited post to make it open to all. Two reason for that. Firstly, this is not a “ask Iain” forum and I don’t always have the time to give detailed answers to all questions. Secondly, and most importantly, there are loads of knowledge people on this forum, many of who hold differing views to myself, so an open question will get as wider array of views and hence better explore the topic.

Graziano wrote:
Which the difference between the method of double hip and traditional way of using the hip, the method teach on old JKA for example?

You really do need to learn this first-hand as it can be difficult for people to get it from text alone, but there have been a few attempts in this thread to explain it so I’d ask you to read back over the thread. This post by me may be a good place to start:

http://iainabernethy.co.uk/comment/9199#comment-9199

Graziano wrote:
On this article the author say of don't use the rotation of hip, because give less power to the punches. Could give your opinion about it?

I don’t have time to read the article. And I know some folks who hit very hard with a non-rotational method (Kris Wilder for one). However, for me, the double hip is the most effective methods of power generation that I’ve been exposed to and it fits with my wider way of moving. I therefore use and teach the double hip myself.

Graziano wrote:
I saw this your video … there is a strange way of use the legs, he seems to me boxe, kickboxing or similar I cannot see none of karate stances, why?

It’s not strange to us :-) That sequence is full of “karate stances”, but they are flowed through – as they should be – and adjusted tactically (for distance). The first punch is a short “Zenkutsu Dachi” (front stance). The next two punches are delivered using “Gaku neko ashi dachi”. Here is a photo of that stance / leg position.

Stances are there to teach us how to move bodyweight. They are not ends in themselves. Funakoshi was clear on this in his 17th precept: “Stances are for beginners. Advanced students use natural postures.” In the video, Joe is flowing through various body positions (without stopping) to generate power. This is the how stances should be used.

If you want to know more this way of thinking, you should read this article:

http://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/my-stance-stances

The bottom line is that Joe in not the biggest of guys (he’s grown a bit since then mind!) and yet you can see and hear how hard he hits. The methods works.

Graziano wrote:
On karate shotokan for generate power is used the principle of action and reaction, through the Hikite, but also pushing the feet on the floor, could you tell me something about it? Is it correct?

I think what you are describing is a central pivot, and because that means that half of the body is moving away from the target, I would personally say it is incorrect. The double hip has the side of the hip as the pivot point. I do know plenty of Shotokan folk who use the double hip though. Some also using something very similar but don’t use the term.

The hikite (hand on the hip) also has nothing to do with generating power. Is it used to strip limbs and locate the enemy. In Funakoshi’s early books he is clear hikite is active in manipulating the enemy’s limbs.  It’s later, once the applications of the motions are not as widely taught or thought about, that hikite is reinvented as a power thing. It’s not effective in doing that and pulling an empty hand to the hip leaves us open and slows any following punch by taking the striking hand way further back than it need to be.

Graziano wrote:
Which the way more natural for we men and more correct from a point of view of biomechanics generate power on the strike?

I would say the double hip is most natural. We see it in most human motions when power is needed (tennis serve, golf swing, shot-putting, javelin throw, baseball pitch, etc) and it only seems “unnatural” to black belts who have ingrained the “single hip”. I can honestly say that I have orange belts at my club who will hit harder that the vast majority of dan grades. If you learn the double hip from day one, it is more in line with the body’s natural way of moving and gets good results. We have a number of female students and, as you’d expect, they find the double hip to be most effective for them too. Both on the pads and in reality. I had one female student – of very slight build – drop a mental ill individual (off his medication) who came at her with a knife with a lead hand slap using the method.

The bottom line is that karate should be a living art that measures by effect. Whatever method folks use, if it is allowing them to hut hard (not what they think is hard, but truly hard) then it has validity.

I hope that helps explain why I personally use this method.

All the best,

Iain

Chikara Andrew
Chikara Andrew's picture

Graziano wrote:

Which the difference beetween the method of double hip and traditional way of using the hip, the method teach on old Jka for eample? Nakayama talk about this method in his book if you can you should read the THE BEST KARATE VOLUME 2 there is a whole chapter dedicated to use of hip  he compares the action of the hips to that of a spring

Hi

The link obviously doesn't contain all the text that goes with this but looking at the last diagram on the page this very closely resembles the double hip. The spring is the torque created across the body, but if you look at what the hips are doing, in conjunction with the legs, the left hip is leading, both with the age uke and then as the knee is bent into front stance. This creates the torque in the spring which is unleased as the right hip comes forward, the left hip doesn't go backwards.

Andrew

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi All,

With my admin hat on, can we be careful of linking to pages that provide access to copyrighted material? I know it's sometimes difficult to tell, and I know no one here would do so deliberately, but I don't want us to unwittingly contribute to the illegal distribution of people's work. Thanks.

All the best,

Iain

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