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Anf
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Iain Abernethy wrote:
3) I think the number of pragmatically biased karateka already in existence is being underestimated. That’s the international community I move in and it is HUGE. We are not MMA practitioners and don’t want to be MMA practitioners. I therefore can’t see us being subsumed by MMA in the way you suggest. We will continue to grow in numbers and continue to set the agenda for the future of karate.

I genuinely hope you are right. I do recognise that karate has the potential to be more practical than many other systems. I think no style is perfect. I can't see how one could be because we're all different, and with different goals. I think the styles I mentioned each offer more than 3k, but I can see that when it comes to, say, older slower person uses skill and composure to control and escape a hostile encounter with a bunch of chavs on the street, karate, if practiced well, will offer more than the relentless bashing strategy of competitive striking arts, or the one on one grappling of jiu-jitsu and similar.

i think the reason that the competive arts can thrive is because they have the advantage of a common way of measuring effectiveness. Within. The unrealistically narrow spectrum of combat that is combat sport, we can easily see what works and what doesn't. It is of course far from ideal as a measure of practicality on the infamous street, but it is nonetheless some means of measurement. Compared to the measures often adopted in karate, such as the ability to perform a particular kata or demonstrate the ability to break a board that is purpose made to break.

i think karate is a beautiful art. I think it's an absolute travesty what's been done to it the world over, and I think its great that there are people like you working hard to fix it. And with relentless determination I'm sure you'll succeed one day. But I think karate's reputation is poorly, and will take a lot of time and effort to fix.

Iain Abernethy
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Anf wrote:
I genuinely hope you are right.

What I can say is that there is rarely a day that goes by where I am not talking to karate instructors and advising them on the way to make the transition. That’s in addition to the large numbers who already have. Each instructor will mean all their students making the shift too … and some of them will go on to be instructors. And I’m just one person of many in this loose “movement”. Work to be done, but lots of reasons to be positive about the way things are going.

Anf wrote:
i think the reason that the competive arts can thrive is because they have the advantage of a common way of measuring effectiveness. Within. The unrealistically narrow spectrum of combat that is combat sport, we can easily see what works and what doesn't.

Karate does have a well-established competitive element too of course. As you say, combat sports are self-contained units that define their own goals, but they certainly have objective tests for achieving those goals. It’s one of the great strengths of combat sports as discussed in this article:

https://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/defence-combat-sports

When considering the number of combat sport practitioners, we need to remember that once a person gets into their 30s, their days are a competitor are numbered. Combat sports will therefore never have a large active base outside that small demographic window.  Which is Point 2 I made in the above post. Karate has a wider appeal across the demographics and that gives us an advantage when it comes to overall numbers of practitioners.  

Pragmatic Karate should also have objective testing via live drills specifically constructed to replicate elements of self-protection. Sport is not the only live test in town.

Anf wrote:
Compared to the measures often adopted in karate, such as the ability to perform a particular kata or demonstrate the ability to break a board that is purpose made to break.

That’s one of the things that practical karate is having a fair bit of success in addressing. Pragmatic karate has realistic live testing in training, and that is also reflected in the associated grading examinations. If you want to pass to the next rank, you have to show that you can objectively apply the skills taught.

Anf wrote:
But I think karate's reputation is poorly,

Practises such as “x-step sparring” certainly don’t help with that. Which is why it would be better for karate if it was jettisoned and not “justified”. As I say, work to be done, but the direction of travel seems to be the right one and the pace encouraging.

All the best,

Iain

Bob Davis
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I posted this video elsewhere and Iain suggested I drop it here. Part of it is about various thoughts on 3/5 step sparring so may be of interest.

Just some blokes sitting around on John Titchen's dojo floor talking :-)

Steve Gombosi
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Anf wrote:
Ours is not textbook aikido, in that we include some of the striking aspects of karate and boxing...

In doing this, I'd say you're actually moving closer to the historical roots of Aikido. If you happen to have a copy of Ueshiba's first book, Budo, you'll see that the directions for almost every technique begin with the instruction "First, smash the enemy's face."

Tau
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Steve Gombosi wrote:

Anf wrote:
Ours is not textbook aikido, in that we include some of the striking aspects of karate and boxing...

In doing this, I'd say you're actually moving closer to the historical roots of Aikido. If you happen to have a copy of Ueshiba's first book, Budo, you'll see that the directions for almost every technique begin with the instruction "First, smash the enemy's face."

O-Sensei famously said "90% of Aikido is atemi." He didn't mean what we would understand my atemi (pressure points) now but just plain striking. When I teach Aikido it's there albeit as a "show" so as we understand the history rather than an actual strike.

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