6 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mulberry4000
Mulberry4000's picture
exposing fake belts in BJJ

There are lots of videos on you tube where people go  round to bjj clubs and expose the black belt for not being a black in their organisation or any where legitimate . What do you think of this? Basically they are going to round saying this guy is not a real bjj instructor because he does not know bjj to our standard or any stanndard at all and is ripping people off. Now i think this is  not on, people have no right to go to another club and disrupte that club  no matter what they think of the style or instructor or his/level of skill. I think it is a form of imtimidation and bulllying, after all it can be and i am sure it is being used to shut down single clubs or people who are out side the organsiations who want to see them closed. Sure they are people who do not know bjj or any MA but it is their right to open  one up and if people accept his standards them fair play to them and him  if not they should shop else where. I am against any MA or BJJ police. I  amd stuyding karate and Judo. I would never go to a club and  say to a instructor your fake even if the guy was terrible i would watch first then decide if he or  she is good.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

I do understand the desire to protect the reputation of the art, the status of the BJJ black belt, and expose people who are deliberately misleading students. The danger of turning up to clubs and challenging people is that it may fall within the legal definitions of intimidation and assault … and that’s potentially extremely problematic for the individuals and reputation of the art too.

I can think of one case where something like that happened with “karate”. There was dispute about the legitimacy of belts (and student poaching) where people turned up at the “offending” dojo, try to strip belts in front of students (including some children), only for the police to be called and the debacle making the papers. Not sure if charges were pressed, but no one looks good in any of that.

Education is the most effective way. Provide a high-profile alternative so people are better educated as to what to look for.

Mulberry4000 wrote:
Sure they are people who do not know bjj or any MA but it is their right to open one up and if people accept his standards them fair play to them …

Can’t say I agree with that. No one has the right to commit fraud. If an individual is saying they are something they are not, in order to charge for a service that they can’t realistically provide, then that’s certainly unethical; probably illegal.

Students aren’t always educated enough to make informed decisions. A student may only “accept” their “teacher” because they believe that they have the skills they say they do. It’s for this reason that educating the public about the difference between legitimate and fraudulent instructors is key.

“Buyer beware” only really works in the buyer knows what to be aware of. That’s something that can be both effective and free of messy PR / legal issues.

We recently had a related discussion about how BJJ is starting to suffer from problems we TMA types have had for a while: https://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/bjj-catching-tmas-cold

All the best,

Iain

Dash3
Dash3's picture

My BJJ white belt is 100% legit, earned, and deserved... no worries about being exposed there!

Mulberry4000
Mulberry4000's picture

I agree no one has a right comit fraud but who has the right to challenge the said instructor and force him or her close down? I have experience in judo, but what if opened a club and said it was bjj no one could close that down, it is up to me. Of course i have no intrest in opening a club that is too much hard work for me but you get the point. It just reminds me of the kung fu movies lets go round to that so and so clubs and close them down because they are teaching rubbish. or not legit 

not on

best wishes 

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

I agree when it comes to the means. Turning up in person like that is probably illegal and certainly damaging to the reputation of the art, and is hence self-defeating. However, we should not have illegitimate clubs out there. Someone with no direct BJJ experience presenting themselves as a bona fide BJJ coach could see people conned out of their time, their money, and maybe even put themselves at risk of physical harm if the art they have no experience of is taught unsafely.

The good clubs need to educate the public about that they should be looking for. That’s the right way to do it. And if they do come across a fraudulent club then maybe report it to trading standards (or similar bodies if outside of the UK)? They have legal powers to enforce the accurate “description of goods and services”. They can’t close any business down, but they can prosecute businesses that are deliberately misleading customers.

Mulberry4000 wrote:
I agree no one has a right commit fraud but who has the right to challenge the said instructor and force him or her close down?

The law of the land can stop them committing fraud.

Mulberry4000 wrote:
I have experience in judo, but what if opened a club and said it was bjj no one could close that down, it is up to me.

I don’t see it that way. If an experienced judoka wanted to open a “ground fighting class” then that would be obviously perfectly OK. However, if they proport to be teaching BJJ specifically, then that’s fraud. It’s lying in order to deliberately deceive. It is both unethical and illegal. Individual BBJ instructors have no legal right to take the law into their own hands; on that we agree. But it’s not solely up to the school owner either. If they are publicly offering a service that they know they are not qualified to provide, then it’s fraud.

I could not advertise myself as a plumber if I’m not qualified. Similar, I can’t offer to teach BJJ if I have no qualifications to do so. Trading standards would be the people to contact. I know of cases where martial arts clubs have been prosecuted for making false claims (saying they had insurance when they didn’t in the case I’m recalling), but falsely claiming to teach an art you have no training in would also fall under their remit.

All the best,

Iain

Mulberry4000
Mulberry4000's picture

Yes of course the law can close the club done if they falsely adverstise. I totally agree with that. I for one  would go to a  a club look it at myself, see what the standards are, see how the instructor is with this club, is it happy, it is easy going, does it train hard, does it also have fun, does it have quality.. If i thought the club was rubbish or fake  i would leave and say thank you and never go back.  I stay away from clubs that offer contracts, ie you have to sign up for a years training for little johnny or helen, but if you leave you must still pay us the full  years training fees. I totally disagree with  this approach, it just making MAs look greedy and bad, also people do not have enough money. I have heard people being sent debt collectors letters when they refuse to pay the extra club fees. Going to back to the "fake club" like i said, even if though the art they are pratcicing is disgrace, i would not say anthing, it is not my place. Now if some one from the club later on asked  me what i thought, and by the way i am not pargon of  wisdom, i would give my opionion good or bad and leave it up to them.