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Anf
Anf's picture
Attending seminars outside your style/association

Hi all.

What is the etiquette when attending a seminar outside of your own association?

For example, let's say the only suit you own is branded up with your club's logos etc. Do you still wear it, other do you how in a t shirt and bottoms instead? Or do you buy an unbranded gi just for such purposes?

Do you wear your normal belt? Mine means nothing outside of my association. I presume that's the same for everyone.

And for those of us more familiar with Korean terminology and etiquette, will we be left a bit stuck in a Japanese style event?

If the theme of a seminar is application of a particular kata, are you expected to be familiar with that kata, and in particular that style's version of it?

Am I thinking too much?

Chikara Andrew
Chikara Andrew's picture

Generally if it's advertised as on open event, it means just that.If in doubt a quick message to the organisers will usually clear up any concerns you may have.

As for styles, that's whats great about open seminars, you get to see other points of view and other interpretations which adds to your own understanding.

Just go for it!

deltabluesman
deltabluesman's picture

I do it fairly often.  It usually goes well.  I'll always e-mail the organizer ahead of time to let him or her know that (i) I'm from a different style, (ii) I prefer not to wear my gi or my belt, unless it's required, and (iii) I'll be happy to follow whatever rules they put in place (since I'm the guest).

There's been one or two occasions where people seemed somewhat offended by my decision not to wear a gi, but I've never been barred entry for that reason.  It just makes me feel more comfortable.

This does remind me of a funny story though.  Several years ago, I signed up for a "Judo Clinic" that was open to the public.  It was hosted by a school about an hour away.  I called up the instructor and told him that I was a karate guy, that I had zero Judo experience, and that I was bringing a friend with me so we could learn some throwing skills.  He said sure, we're glad to have you.  I asked him if I needed a Judo gi, and he told me no, just wear my karate gi like I normally would.

I still cringe thinking about this, but I stupidly showed up at the seminar and put on my karate gi, with my karate belt rank.  I had just earned my shodan, so I walked out onto the mat wearing a black belt in a room full of Judo guys.  The worst part was that the guy teaching the seminar was wearing a brown belt (in Judo), so my friend and I were the only two "black belts" there.  No one made a scene or anything, but it was painfully awkward.  

As far as kata-based seminars go, I think it depends on the teacher.  Some instructors will tell you that you must know the kata in order to participate, but most don't seem to care.  The only thing I will mention is that if you do know the kata that's being taught, practice it thoroughly before you go, and make sure it's crisp.  You never know when the instructor will ask you to demonstrate your style's version of the kata, and then you have an entire room of strangers watching how you move.  (Apologies if I'm stating the obvious here.) 

--J    

PASmith
PASmith's picture

From my experience how it will be recieved (both by the association you are with and the seminar you are going to) can be a mixed bag. Some associations (or some instructors and people in associations) take a dim view of going "elsewhere" to train. I try not to entertain such people but they undoubtedly exist in places and can make life annoying if you do something they deem wrong.

I've also been to a couple of events that had awful people teaching that clearly had no idea (and/or desire) to accomodate outsiders (even though they were teaching on an open event). I went to one a couple of years ago where we were all stood at the side chatting and getting to know each other before it started while the 3 aikido people due to teach later on sat in seiza across the mat with swords by their sides looking very grumpy that we had the effrontery to be "friendly"!

Overall though the vast majority of seminars have been overwhelmingly positive and friendly affairs from all angles.

Iain's seminars often state that you don't need to know the kata to take advantage of the seminar, and while that is the case in the way Iain presents things, IMHO some familiarity defiitely helps. Just to give you a sense of how it fits together and what techniques are present. I did a naihanchi seminar with Iain a few years back so learnt it (a bit) from Youtube the week before. I didn't need to but it didn't do any harm. :)

In terms of what to wear I would pack for versatility, see what other people wear on the day and dress accordingly. Pack non-descript white or black training trouser (they will be suitable in Karate, TKD, TSD, Judo at a push, kickboxing, etc). A plain-ish t-shirt (but one bearing your club or association or logo should only cause problems in the pettiest of people). Pack trainers just in case the the venue or flooring are poor and everyone else is wearing shoes (Kali, Arnis or Escrima seminars and training are often done in shoes for example). Pack a hoody just in case there's waiting around or a substantial lecture element and you need to stay warm. Take your belt and wear it if others are but don't hold onto it if it would look wrong or out of place. Better to be assumed to know nothing than someone assume a level you are not IMHO.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

It will vary on the group in hosting and the nature of the event. For example, a gi may be needed for the subject matter. Fundamentally though, it’s all about being a good host and a good guest.

A good host should be welcoming and friendly, and a good guest should be respectful and courteous. If the host was making unreasonable requests (i.e. must remove all association patches, all those graded by other groups must wear a white belt, etc) then they are not good hosts and I’d recommend not going. If the guest turns up expecting to run the show and blatantly ignoring house rules, they are a bad guest and it should be made clear they are not welcome.

When I teach at someone’s dojo, or visit there to train, I always ask about how they would like me to do the etiquette and any special rules they wish me to adhere to. That’s part of being a good guest. Stick to the general rules of hospitality and it’s hard to go wrong.

All the best,

Iain

Anf
Anf's picture

I perhaps should have mentioned, sometimes I've tried classes of different styles. Sometimes I've even stuck to them for a while. I always tell them honestly that I have experience in another style but that I'm a complete beginner in theirs.

I do this because I don't want to mislead anyone. I'm not sure what would be worse. Pretending to have no clue what a front stance is, or doing a front stance as per your main style rather than theirs. So by being honest up front, I hope it explains why I might move in certain ways until I learn their way.

I would always try to follow the rules and etiquette of wherever I am. I'm just worried in case I accidentally cause offence somehow. In a new class, it's not so bad, as I tend to be the only newbie when I join so I can explain up front that I'm there with an open mind and with respect. But in a seminar I guess everyone is new all at once so it would hardly be appropriate to kind of say, bear with me, I'm new :)

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Anf wrote:
In a new class, it's not so bad, as I tend to be the only newbie when I join so I can explain up front that I'm there with an open mind and with respect. But in a seminar I guess everyone is new all at once so it would hardly be appropriate to kind of say, bear with me, I'm new :)

I think the person teaching or holding the seminar should expect that people are unaware of “house rules” and allowances made for that. As a “host”, it is important the “guest” is made to feel welcome. Therefore, to my way of thinking, a seminar attendee making an innocent “faux pas” should not be made into an issue by the host, nor should the attendee be made to feel any embarrassment or discomfort. A quiet and polite one-to-one explanation is the way to go.

As I say, to me, it’s just like being a guest in someone home. The host should be warm and welcoming and make the guest aware of any requests. In turn, the guest should be polite and respectful, comply with any requests, and ask if unsure.

All the best,

Iain

PASmith
PASmith's picture

Best thing to do is rock up wearing MMA attire covered in winged skulls and eagles and then walk straight across the mat in muddy boots and clap the highest graded person you can see on the back and offer a high five.

Anf
Anf's picture

PASmith wrote:
Best thing to do is rock up wearing MMA attire covered in winged skulls and eagles and then walk straight across the mat in muddy boots and clap the highest graded person you can see on the back and offer a high five.
Awesome, thanks. I'll do that lol :)

karate10
karate10's picture

When I went to Iain's Seminar in Texas around two years ago now, I spoke to my Shihan from my Kyokushin dojo about the Bunkai event in Texas. He grant me permission and was happy to know that I'll be learning karate bunkai strategy for my self protection and for learning purpose, but he did mention to me not to tell other Shihans within the Organization as they might get offended. I worn my Kyokushin gi along with my 1 kyu at the time and other members from Oklahoma, Georgia and other karate practitioners was amazed to see a Kyokushin paractitioner as I was the only one at the seminar. BTW Mr. Abernethy, I love that seminar and hope to see you soon sir.....Regards...Gerald.

Neil Babbage
Neil Babbage's picture

Anf wrote:
I  or doing a front stance as per your main style rather than theirs.

We like "outsiders" because they always teach us something new (although not necessarily something useful!) and depending on what learning outcomes the "outsider" wants, we are unlikely to try and "fix" things like slight variations in stances, or kata practice because broadly speaking they make no difference to the intent of what we are trying to achieve - practical self-defence based on karate. Having said that, when I started my krav maga training I had tried really hard to do everything the "krav way" just to see if it made a difference. Some did, some didn't.

Anf
Anf's picture

With regard to telling my instructor, I wouldn't offer the information, but I wouldn't deny it if asked.

I know some instructors get upset if a student goes elsewhere. It's almost like cheating, or 'martial adultery' to some. I'm not sure what my instructor would think. I wouldn't burden him with having to worry about it.

The way I see martial art is that it is a very personal thing. Every person in our club, probably every club, has their own personal set of goals. Some things they'll have in common. Like the goal of reaching black belt or 2nd Dan in the art, or perfecting certain techniques. But many more goals are personal. Like being fit enough to have fun with their kids, or taking a mental break from the stresses of 'ordinary' life, or to win medals and glory, or to learn art as art.

With that said, I think any one club will really fall short as a be all and end all. A kicker would not feel truly fulfilled in a club that places all the emphasis on hand techniques. A grappler would not feel fulfilled in an environment that is mostly about striking etc. Therefore it seems logical to me that while it's good to have a single 'main' club that covers a broad range of things, folks should feel free to look elsewhere for the extra refinements in the bits that interest them the most.