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I share this for two reasons, a) it's just damn cool :-)
And b) I was wondering what kata this is if anyone can help? I am intrugied by the purpose of the three forward steps at 41 sec mark of the below video,
Well, she starts with Kosokun Dai, then some Matsumora Rohai, then some Tomari Bassai, then some stuff that looks like more Kosokun Dai, Sepai, then finishes with Kosokun Dai.
And b) I was wondering what kata this is if anyone can help? I am intrugied by the purpose of the three forward steps at 41 sec mark of the below video.
The steps are taken from the kata “Matsumura no Rohai”. See the video below (around 20 second in).
It’s not a kata I’ve studied or practise. Maybe some of the Shito-Ryu guys can tell us how they see the application of the sequence?
Well, she does parts of all of the kata I mentioned, it is not "One" kata. As for the 3 steps of Matsumora No Rohai
松茂良鷺牌
serious typo in the video, please see kanji from the original Mabuni Syllabus, it's clearly Matsumora not Mastumura, this is an error that has been propogated by everyone, including Japanese, since it was first published, typically depicted as aproaching and being startled, thus the step/jump backwards.
Dale is absolutely right. There is no Matsumura Rohai. Same goes for Matsumura Chinto. Both are Kata from the Tomari region so Matsumura from Shuri had nothing to do with them.
Thanks for the name clarification. We have discussed this before, but I can’t find the link? Whilst the name is incorrect historically, the kata widely goes by that name these days and that could cause confusion. Probably a good idea to correctly label / “re-label” the form at every opportunity such that the historic name becomes more widely used.
Dale Parker wrote:
typically depicted as approaching and being startled, thus the step/jump backwards.
As is often the case, the more widely propagated application is a poor one. Why walk with the hands on your hip? Why is the walk not more natural if it is “just a walk”? How is the following motion a good default to being startled? “When startled, stand on one leg and make yourself really unstable”? What is the point of including walking with no function in the kata? People know how to walk right? And so on.
As I say, not a kata I practise, but I’d like to think the kata is more logical and functional than that.
To me, at first glance, it looks like enemy’s right arm has been seized at the wrist and elbow (by the hands on the hip). The forward walk would then put pressure on the elbow and brings the enemy’s head forward and around. The assuming of the crane stance would then see the enemy’s right arm underhooked; the arm would then be rotated (while maintaining contact in a clockwise direction from my perspective) such that the enemy’s arm is lifted (high hand) and the other hand (lower hand) keeps the head in line with the rising knee to the face. The following “reinforced block” would then see the “blocking” arm slam into the neck / base of skull, as the “supporting arm” folded the enemy’s arm up their back to keep them forward.
I realise text is a little hard to follow, so Becky and I (and our friend) have just quickly popped outside to snap the following pics. Not exactly professional quality, but hopefully they help explain what I’ve just described?
As I say, these are just some thoughts on what appears to be there to me. Hopefully those who are more familiar with the kata will share their thoughts on the bunkai surrounding the steps.
Notice one hand comes high the other low, steps up to sweep.
Probably not the best examples, but I think it explains the idea, the walking could just be shuffling about as the leg or arm is being controlled, then stylized for the kata.
We could take the view that the fists are on the hip because they are being held there, as Iain writes above. Alternatively, they could be there because we have grabbed both of the attackers arms with both of our hands and are holding him. In either case, the steps forward might indicate a stamp which would serve as an atemi which would provoke a response (change in the posture) from the attacker and then make it easier to follow this up with a knee to the stomach (or head depending on the reaction to the stamp). In fact, after a stamp the knee attack would be more difficult to see, making it more likely that the stomach would be un-tensed and so it should be more effective. In the version of Matsumora Rohai I learned, this is followed by a diagonal move into zenkutsudachi with kakete and then gyakutsuki (rather than the move into shikodachi and furitsuki as in the video), so a grab and pull onto a strike with the fist.
p.s. I see the three steps as indicating that we can stamp with either foot, similar to the motive behind the three steps in the Pinan kata. The foot we use to stamp will dictate the range and angle of delivery of the knee strike, similar to delivering a kick from the front foot vs back foot.
Well, she starts with Kosokun Dai, then some Matsumora Rohai, then some Tomari Bassai, then some stuff that looks like more Kosokun Dai, Sepai, then finishes with Kosokun Dai.
That’s very cool! I like that a lot.
The steps are taken from the kata “Matsumura no Rohai”. See the video below (around 20 second in).
It’s not a kata I’ve studied or practise. Maybe some of the Shito-Ryu guys can tell us how they see the application of the sequence?
All the best,
Iain
Well, she does parts of all of the kata I mentioned, it is not "One" kata. As for the 3 steps of Matsumora No Rohai
松茂良鷺牌serious typo in the video, please see kanji from the original Mabuni Syllabus, it's clearly Matsumora not Mastumura, this is an error that has been propogated by everyone, including Japanese, since it was first published, typically depicted as aproaching and being startled, thus the step/jump backwards.
Hi everyone,
Dale is absolutely right. There is no Matsumura Rohai. Same goes for Matsumura Chinto. Both are Kata from the Tomari region so Matsumura from Shuri had nothing to do with them.
Regards Holger
Thanks for the name clarification. We have discussed this before, but I can’t find the link? Whilst the name is incorrect historically, the kata widely goes by that name these days and that could cause confusion. Probably a good idea to correctly label / “re-label” the form at every opportunity such that the historic name becomes more widely used.
As is often the case, the more widely propagated application is a poor one. Why walk with the hands on your hip? Why is the walk not more natural if it is “just a walk”? How is the following motion a good default to being startled? “When startled, stand on one leg and make yourself really unstable”? What is the point of including walking with no function in the kata? People know how to walk right? And so on.
As I say, not a kata I practise, but I’d like to think the kata is more logical and functional than that.
To me, at first glance, it looks like enemy’s right arm has been seized at the wrist and elbow (by the hands on the hip). The forward walk would then put pressure on the elbow and brings the enemy’s head forward and around. The assuming of the crane stance would then see the enemy’s right arm underhooked; the arm would then be rotated (while maintaining contact in a clockwise direction from my perspective) such that the enemy’s arm is lifted (high hand) and the other hand (lower hand) keeps the head in line with the rising knee to the face. The following “reinforced block” would then see the “blocking” arm slam into the neck / base of skull, as the “supporting arm” folded the enemy’s arm up their back to keep them forward.
I realise text is a little hard to follow, so Becky and I (and our friend) have just quickly popped outside to snap the following pics. Not exactly professional quality, but hopefully they help explain what I’ve just described?![](/sites/default/files/file_attach/images/Matsumora_Rohai_Steps_Bunkai.jpg)
As I say, these are just some thoughts on what appears to be there to me. Hopefully those who are more familiar with the kata will share their thoughts on the bunkai surrounding the steps.
All the best,
Iain
Notice one hand comes high the other low, steps up to sweep.
Probably not the best examples, but I think it explains the idea, the walking could just be shuffling about as the leg or arm is being controlled, then stylized for the kata.
Hello everyone,
We could take the view that the fists are on the hip because they are being held there, as Iain writes above. Alternatively, they could be there because we have grabbed both of the attackers arms with both of our hands and are holding him. In either case, the steps forward might indicate a stamp which would serve as an atemi which would provoke a response (change in the posture) from the attacker and then make it easier to follow this up with a knee to the stomach (or head depending on the reaction to the stamp). In fact, after a stamp the knee attack would be more difficult to see, making it more likely that the stomach would be un-tensed and so it should be more effective. In the version of Matsumora Rohai I learned, this is followed by a diagonal move into zenkutsudachi with kakete and then gyakutsuki (rather than the move into shikodachi and furitsuki as in the video), so a grab and pull onto a strike with the fist.
p.s. I see the three steps as indicating that we can stamp with either foot, similar to the motive behind the three steps in the Pinan kata. The foot we use to stamp will dictate the range and angle of delivery of the knee strike, similar to delivering a kick from the front foot vs back foot.
Hi Dale & R Bartley,
I like both of those! Nice! Thank you fpor sharing your thoughts.
All the best,
Iain