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Tau
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Hiraken

The hiraken/four-knuckle punch/leopard fist seems to be rarely seen in kata. I can only think of jitte as an example, and that's an inverted version. 

Why is this? It's got its use, particular neck striking directly where the shuto may not easily go. It's also easy to learn. So easy that my juniors did it last week and believed they'd invented a new strike!

Heath White
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Just a guess ... .anywhere a leopard fist will go, a spearhand will go  as well, to more devastating effect?  Maybe hiraken is "nukite for less-trained hands".

Wastelander
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We don't have it in any kata in my lineage, actually. I would tend to say it doesn't come up very often simply because it is a very niche thing

Iain Abernethy
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Hi All,

Tau wrote:
The hiraken/four-knuckle punch/leopard fist seems to be rarely seen in kata. I can only think of jitte as an example, and that's an inverted version.

I can only think of Jitte too. For the interests of completeness, does anyone know any other examples from kata that they practise?

Tau wrote:
Why is this?

My guess would primarily be because of the limited target areas (throat only). It’s good fit for the situation at the start of Jitte, but it’s not widely applicable.

Tau wrote:
my juniors did it last week and believed they'd invented a new strike!

Brilliant :-) Nothing new under the sun!

All the best,

Iain

B Fountain
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Its the 3rd move in the opening of the original Koryo kata in tkd. I was taught as a strike to the throat. Since most people here are from a karate background and few people in TKD practice it anymore- "meditation" , knife hand block, then four knuckle strike.

Tau
Tau's picture

 

B Fountain wrote:

Its the 3rd move in the opening of the original Koryo kata in tkd. I was taught as a strike to the throat. Since most people here are from a karate background and few people in TKD practice it anymore- "meditation" , knife hand block, then four knuckle strike.

I'm guessing that's WTF TKD. I'm an ITF TKD practitioner so to me the third pattern (not counting Saju Jirugi) is Do San which doesn't have the four-knuckle punch in.

Although now I think about the the opening movement of Joong Gun is a "block" with the hand in that arrangement

B Fountain
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Tau wrote:
I'm guessing that's WTF TKD. I'm an ITF TKD practitioner so to me the third pattern (not counting Saju Jirugi) is Do San which doesn't have the four-knuckle punch in.

Hello Tau, 3rd movement not third kata. This was 1967 KTA before WTF. This link has a little info on it. Though the execution of the movements in the included video is what I would call more modern . https://taekwondo.fandom.com/wiki/Original_Koryo I learned and taught in a school that was not competition, and was unaffiliated. Never moved to taeguk still did palgwe, deep stances, throws, joint locks, break aways, and hands strikes were still a focus. Take care.

Marc
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Tau wrote:
The hiraken/four-knuckle punch/leopard fist seems to be rarely seen in kata. I can only think of jitte as an example, and that's an inverted version.

Iain Abernethy wrote:
I can only think of Jitte too. For the interests of completeness, does anyone know any other examples from kata that they practise?

For clarity, at what point in Jitte does the hiraken appear? (I don't see one in the version I've learned.)

In fact, quickly going through all the 26 Shotokan katas I've learned there doesn't seem to be a single hiraken.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Marc wrote:
For clarity, at what point in Jitte does the hiraken appear? (I don't see one in the version I've learned.)

It’s done on the very first movement in some versions i.e. the arching right hand following the “salutation”. It’s just as common for the fingers to be straight as opposed to folded, so in those versions hiraken is not present.

In Karate-Do Kyohan, the opening movement is described by Funakoshi as follows:

“… form the right hand into a shallow fist with the distal two joints of the fingers tightly flexed and rotate it slowly in a circle starting in front of the chest … The shallow fist described for the right hand is a characteristic of this kata …”

The hand formation and direction of travel are essentially a “leopard fist”; although it is not specifically labelled as such in the text. It would therefore be present in the versions of Jitte that do the move that way (some Wado, some Shotokan, etc). However, in other versions the fingers are entirely straight (some Wado, some Shotokan, Shito-Ryu, etc).

All the best,

Iain

Marc
Marc's picture

Marc wrote:
For clarity, at what point in Jitte does the hiraken appear? (I don't see one in the version I've learned.)

Iain Abernethy wrote:
It’s done on the very first movement in some versions i.e. the arching right hand following the “salutation”. It’s just as common for the fingers to be straight as opposed to folded, so in those versions hiraken is not present.

Thanks for the clarification.

Also, according to the Funakoshi quote, in Shotokan we should fold the right hand into a hiraken at this point.

I've seen the flat fist as a variation for this move and also for the next move in Jitte and the three consecutive moves in kiba-dachi as well as for similar moves in Enpi/Wanshu, Jion or Hangetsu.

It always seemed to me that using the flat fist or flat open hand in these cases was more a matter of taste/style than an essential difference in technique or application.

Application-wise none of the hiraken techniques feel like punching techniques that whould hit the target witth the knuckles (or finger-tips in the open hand versions). Rather the technique would be delivered by hooking with the back hand, hitting with the palm or edge or even hitting with the elbow. So open or closed flat hand would really not make a big difference.

Compare the first move in Jitte with the two similar first moves in Jion and Jiin (or even the first move of Gojushiho Dai and Sho).

My preferred application for the first moves in Jitte, Jion and Jiin would be this:

After entrapping the opponent's head/neck with the "salutation" position (right fist in left hand) at the beginning of the kata, the opponent tries to escape the entrapment by dropping down and then attempts an ude-wa takedown. At this point we step back into a front stance, our left hand controls and redirects their head/neck while our right elbow strikes down on their spine. (In Jiin the roles of the hands are reversed.)

Freeze framing at this point gives us the position in question. Since we hit the opponent with the elbow, the exact formation of the right hand is irrelevant to the application. Whether the left hand moves back to the hip (Jitte) or down into the down-block position (Jion, Jiin) depends mainly on how we redirect the opponent.

Considering this application, the first moves in Jitte, Jion and Jiin are essentially the same technique, as they all represent the same principle.

All the best,

Marc