I wonder if you can help me comfirming a few things? I am specifically looking/cross-referencing certain moves in TKD patterns to see if they ever appear in kata (specifically Shotokan or similar).
What I`m looking to find out is the following:
1) Whether a kata has the exact same move, a similar move (or looking similar) move ie. it ends up being formed/looking the same at its completion) or whether there was never anything like it at all.
2) Whether you are refering to modern kata or pre-1900 Okinawa versions.
Will get to some of the moves in a minute, but for now, can anyone 100% comfirm that no kicks in pre-1900 kata were above the waist at all?
Okay - heres a few moves/techniques to start - I`ll use the english names with a link to a picture to get them across:
1) Twisting Kick (low/mid & high versions) - http://taekwondo.wikia.com/wiki/File:ITF_Twisting_Kick.jpg
-- the picture shows a high section version, the low section one is done to the groin
2) X-Knifehand checking block - http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:-rfcEv0kgRNbkM:http://www.taekwondo.edu.sg/Tuls/Choong-Moo%2520Tul_files/27000000.jpg
-- Sorry about picture, its all I could find. However, basically, this block starts with both hands at check height and simply come outwards and cross! The older version of the technique sees the hands coming upwards and cross.
3) Two finger strike - cant find a picture but basically its like a flat fingertip thrust (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:sGu-2Se16MrAzM:http://www.taekwondo.edu.sg/Tuls/Choong-Moo%2520Tul_files/04000000.jpg) but with the two main fingers split apart as if poking into each eye!
4) Back Piercing Kick - http://i.ehow.com/images/a04/a3/38/perform-front-snap-kick-double-120X120.jpg - I know karate probibly had back kicks (with the kicking leg coming straight out backwards) but this kick has a 180 degree spin prior to the kick eg. with left leg back in L-Stance/back stance the student raises his left foot as he spins 180 degrees anti-clockwise to strike an oppoenent in front! I have seen a similar jumping version in the kata where the student spins and lands using both palms, but am looking to see if there was ever a standing version prior to Hee Il Cho using it in the US Sport karate in th 70's
5. Reverse Turning Kick -http://www.taekwondocentre.ie/userfiles/Image/Database/small.GERRYREVTK.JPG - like the above kick, this comes from the back leg with a spin to end up in the position you see in the picture!!
I`ll leave it there for now and see what everyone thinks, but will probibly have a few more later :-)