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tubbydrawers
tubbydrawers's picture
Removal of stances in your syllabus

Hi, With regards to your own syllabus, has anyone actually removed stances that you have deemed un worthy or not required in your karate. Or that they are unnecessary. So for example, in Shotokan if you were brought up performing all the stances then you decided to go independent, have you removed any stance. I know some have removed ippon, reduced the amount of Kata they teach, but I have never heard of anyone removing a certain stance because it didn't fit in with what they taught. Thanks.

Wastelander
Wastelander's picture

Well, I transitioned from one style to another, so this may not be exactly what you're looking for, but I no longer do kiba-dachi, at all. In the style I started my training in, kiba-dachi is VERY prevalent, being present in almost every kata, and even their version of Naihanchi/Tekki used a very wide/low kiba-dachi. I have a connective tissue disorder, and have had a bad knee, in particular, for a very long time, and that stance is just incredibly painful, not to mention just not being good basic joint alignment. When I switched to Shorin-Ryu, I found that they don't have kiba-dachi, at all. Even when I run through kata I originally learned in my first style, now, I replace all kiba-dachi with shiko-dachi, as it is healthier and less painful, not to mention more useful, to me.

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi Craig,

tubbydrawers wrote:
I have never heard of anyone removing a certain stance because it didn't fit in with what they taught.

I have seen that. Once people are freed from the confines of style, they can swap one formal stance for another “variation” that achieves the same aims. The example I think I’ve seen most often is one Noah describes above.

Wastelander wrote:
Even when I run through kata I originally learned in my first style, now, I replace all kiba-dachi with shiko-dachi, as it is healthier and less painful, not to mention more useful, to me.

You need ways to shift weight in all the various directions, but there is room for manoeuvre in the example postures (i.e. stances) we choose to use for teaching purposes.

All the best,

Iain

Mikael Holstebro
Mikael Holstebro's picture

In our Sylabus we moved quite a few stances from being stances you are requiered to do - to stances you need to have a theoretical knowledge of.

That is only half a solution, because once you don't practice it why have it in the sylabus. And it becomes much harder to remeber the stances if they are just a theoretical concept.

Les Bubka
Les Bubka's picture

Hi Craig,

Yes, I did, just like Noah I got rid of Kiba dachi. In our system we had both kiba and shiko, my knees feel really uncomfortable in kiba so it had to go. 

I changed most of position in my Taiso programme (for elderly) to avoid injuries and aggravating existing problems, most of the positions with turned in foot went through the window :) 

Best wishes 

Les

Joseph O'Neill
Joseph O'Neill's picture

I have reverted back to the much shorter pre-shotokan stances in my training, and have largely replaced kokutsudachi with neko-ashi dachi as I find fewer people have issues getting their weight over the rear leg in it (I see a lot of 50:50 weight distribution kokutsudachi out there). 

I also do hangetsu more like seisan, in sanchin dachi rather than hangetsu dachi, as I personally believe hangetsudachi is the worst stance ever for knee health as so many people fall into knee valgus with it, which is easier to mitigate in a shorter stance. 

I follow Iain in using them to dictate weight distribution rather than being firm requirements for positions we MUST be in. 

Nate Tam
Nate Tam's picture

I practice shotokan, and yes every stance has a purpose. Understanding each stances' purpose and how to use it fluidly (not statically), and in a recognizing the differences in real application vs training I believe are the key elements of this topic.

Have I ever used kibadachi while sparring? I don't think so, but I can guarantee you I've used the same feeling, body mechanics, and positioning that stance has taught me while sparring. For me personally, I take note of how each stance feels in my body, and how moving from that stance in any given fashion for any given purpose feels as well. I try to understand how best to use that stance for various movements and incorporate lots of movement training from each stance.

If I'm ever caught off-guard or forced into a position where my feet have landed me in somewhat of a kibadachi stance, that training now has real use. Of course in a split second I'm not going to recall that training and try to replicate it, but I trust my body enough to be comfortable in that stance to be able to move and adjust accordingly. I know that in training different stances (albeit from a more fluid perspective than most shotokan schools) will allow my kinesthetic awareness to broaden. Ideally, I wouldn't need to analyze my posture, rear foot position, hips, center, etc to be comfortable moving from any position. 

So in my mind, even though I may never use a hard copied more off-kilter stance in a real altercation, I'd say training first the traditional basics of that stance and then moving into an application of how to use and move from that position, or something like it fluidly in training can actually be helpful.  

Make no mistake, I recognize the fact that most shotokan stances I'll never use in a fight outside of zenkutsudachi- and a modified one at that. But these stances can be great training for kinesthetic awareness and conditioning nonetheless.