4 posts / 0 new
Last post
MAist25
MAist25's picture
Tae Gi Hyul - obscure Moo Duk Kwan hyung

Hello all, I am trying to do some research on the origin/lineage of a series of hyung called Tae Gi Hyul. There are two forms that go by the name (Il and Ee) and they are practiced by very few remaining Korean martial artists. The two forms were passed down by my grandmaster, the late GM Richard Chun.

Based on the research I've done so far it seems as though the Tae Gi Hyul forms are practiced exclusively by those who come from a Ki Whang Kim lineage, including Chuck Norris and Pat Johnson.

All of the other Moo Duk Kwan hyungs passed down by Richard Chun are easily recognizable as Japanese/Okinawan kata except for Tae Gi Hyul. What is interesting is that Ki Whang Kim comes from a Shudokan karate background and was ranked 4th dan under Toyama Kanken, the founder of the Shudokan. GM Kim also achieved black belt ranks in both aikido and judo. And he studied Chinese chaun fa for approximately 2 years while he was stationed in China.

Based on GM Kim's Shudokan lineage I had assumed that the Tae Gi Hyul forms may have Okinawan roots, but I do not seem to be able to find any forms practiced by modern day Shudokan karateka that resemble them. I reached out to some people already regarding the forms but have so far received little help solving the riddle. From what I have seen, Tae Gi Hyul may be translated as "Big Earth Hole" or "Blood of the Earth" although I am not sure about the accuracy of those translations

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody on this forum might be able to offer some clarity as to the origins of these forms. Like I said, I was able to trace them back to GM Kim, but no further, and unfortunately GM Chun is no longer around to ask. Any help is appreciated.

John

Iain Abernethy
Iain Abernethy's picture

Hi John,

MAist25 wrote:
… I do not seem to be able to find any forms practiced by modern day Shudokan karateka that resemble them. I reached out to some people already regarding the forms but have so far received little help solving the riddle.

Could you post links to any videos of the forms being done? If we can see them, we may be able to spot similarities and common sequences with other kata / forms. There’s a lot of different styles practised among the members here. I am therefore confident that we may be able to point to possible source kata if those commonalities are there.

All the best,

Iain

PASmith
PASmith's picture

Something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2KWmfewAI

There are obviously similarities to quite a few Karate kata but I'd probably say this was largely just made up (much like the ITF TKD patterns). An instructor taking the ideas, templates, stances and combinations of karate kata, without much understanding of what the moves can be for, and rearranging them to something the instructor likes, looks aesthetically pleasing or fullfils some other training requirement.

There is also this variation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOOsNuOfuuU

That pattern has a cartwheel and low spinning sweep in it which to me are red flags that this pattern has no "traditional" basis or origin and has been made up to look flashy and to be hard to do technically but without much practicality.

I think of kata like naihanchi when wondering about the relationship between the origins and the practicality of a kata/pattern. Naihanchi is very simple to learn (to a degree). You don't need to be particularly flexible, athletic, fast, fit or physically gifted to perform it (although those attributes will obviously enhance your fighting skills and how you apply it). But, using Iain's methods, naihanchi contains many practial lessons and techniques. Simple but containing much depth.

Inversely you have more modern kata/patterns created without practicality in mind and they contain high kicks, spins, cartwheels, jumps, extreme stances, etc. Harder to do physically but without the practicality. Technically challenging but very shallow.

Much like the way practical weapon arts are generally very to the point (ha!), superficially "simple" and non-flashy while modern weapon patterns are all flash and no substance.

MAist25
MAist25's picture

 

PASmith wrote:

Something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2KWmfewAI

There are obviously similarities to quite a few Karate kata but I'd probably say this was largely just made up (much like the ITF TKD patterns). An instructor taking the ideas, templates, stances and combinations of karate kata, without much understanding of what the moves can be for, and rearranging them to something the instructor likes, looks aesthetically pleasing or fullfils some other training requirement.

This version is a good representation of the form. It very well could have been made up by any old instructor. However, it is often said to be a very old Moo Duk Kwan form. That being said, I've only ever seen it performed by practitioners from a Ki Whang Kim lineage. Although GM Kim was technically a Moo Duk Kwan representative, he did not actually train at the Moo Duk Kwan and I'm almost certain he actually had much more martial arts experience than GM Hwang Kee, the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan. Based on what I know of GM Hwang Kee, Tae Gi Hyul almost certainly did not originate with him.  

From what I know of GM Kim, the forms he taught came from his Shudokan training. So it is possible that Tae Gi Hyul was created by GM Kim, I was just hoping someone might have a little more knowledge of whether or not there is any truth to that. As I said, it seems as though many people do not know where this form came from.